Mia Fileman 0:05
Life’s too short for crap marketing.
The “Got Marketing?” Podcast is for marketers, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want marketing that’s fun, accessible, and meaningful.
Join me, Mia Fileman, for inspired chats with my favourite marketing insiders about marketing that works; campaigns that inspire; and the fads, fakery, and false prophets to avoid.
Hello friend! Welcome back to the show!
Creatives are my people. I speak their language, and they speak mine.
Today, we are going to talk with a sensational creative director and stylist. We are going to talk about visual storytelling and why this is so important for your brand.
“It’s important to also then go out and create your own visuals – whether it’s graphics, whether it’s imagery, whether it’s videos – and be able to mix that in a very cohesive way that generally forms that overall visual brand.’
That was Sandra Chau. She founded School of Visual Branding in 2018. She specialises in teaching entrepreneurs how to grow and use their online visual brands to increase their profit.
Welcome to the show!
Sandra Chau 1:32
Thanks so much for having me, Mia!
Mia Fileman 1:33
It’s such a pleasure.
I remember meeting you at a conference a few months ago. You really stood out to me. I was like, “I’d love to chat to her more!”
Sandra Chau 1:43
Thank you! I’m really excited to chat today!
Mia Fileman 1:45
Great! Let’s dive in! No time like the present.
What exactly does a creative director do?
Sandra Chau 1:51
That’s a great question. It’s something that I get asked a lot.
Essentially, think of an art director, but what I typically do with my clients is I pull together all of their photoshoots. From concept design all the way through to prop, venue, bringing the team together, doing the shoot decks, everything all the way through to actually executing and directing the shoot with my team of photographers and videographers. That’s essentially what a creative director does.
It’s a person who brings all the pieces together for a brand.
Mia Fileman 2:20
You mentioned art directing. What’s the difference then? Does the art director report into the creative director?
Sandra Chau 2:28
The art director is basically a smaller role within a creative director role. The creative director is that person who runs with the brand, the person who knows the brand best and makes all of those creative decisions for it whereas the art director sometimes is just the person on a shoot day.
Mia Fileman 2:45
The creative director is the creative visionary of the brand. Amazing. So good.
You do this work. You have two sides to your business.
You do this work for clients which is professional service, but then you also teach entrepreneurs how to fish as well – how to go and do this work for themselves, yes?
Sandra Chau 3:07
Yes, basically.
I do run a visual content development studio. With that, we work with a lot of clients one on one to create all the visuals for their brand – from imagery to video all the way down to strategy on how to then go and use it on their websites and all the things.
On the education side, I specialise in teaching brands how to elevate their brand and increase their profits using elevated visuals.
Mia Fileman 3:33
Is that what visual storytelling is? Take me through what that is because, you know, in marketing, we just love terms and jargon and words. They are so subjective as well. Everyone has different interpretations of it.
What does it mean to you?
Sandra Chau 3:48
For me, essentially, if you think about a brand, every brand has a story to tell. It doesn’t matter whether you do the same thing as another person or something very similar to another brand. There is no way that your story is the same as the other brand’s story.
What I teach my students and what I do for my clients, the main thing is really to help bring their story to life through visuals. When I say visuals, it could be through photos, it could be through videos. It’s really about bringing those elements to life so that you can stand out from your competitors and stand out from the crowd.
Mia Fileman 4:23
So good, and so important.
With that in mind, what role do stock images play today? I remember when I first started in the online business space, it was 2019 – a little bit after you started the School of Visual Branding. It was stock imagery galore. Everyone had a subscription to Social Squares and Pexel. Instagram feeds were wall-to-wall stock imagery and these perfect aesthetic grids, but it definitely seems like the tide has turned.
I would love to know from you, does stock imagery still serve a purpose at all?
Sandra Chau 5:04
I actually still think they do. I think the way to see it is not all images are created equal.
Different types of images have different purposes. When it comes to stock images, they are the more generic type of images, but the key thing is more whether that particular stock image actually works for your brand, whether it’s in a style and aesthetic, or whether it makes sense because you do come across a lot of stock photos which are a little bit neither here nor there or a bit random which stick out like a sore thumb on your grid, for example.
But these days, I think there is actually a lot of stock image companies, a lot of memberships where they have a lot of more less traditional type of stock images which can actually work really well within your grid, but I think the important thing is to be able to mix it in with your own imagery.
With a lot of my clients, I always say that we create custom stock imagery for them. It’s still that generic, not necessarily specific towards anything, but might work for their brand in terms of the mood or the aesthetic – just something that you could fill your grid with a little bit so that everything is not always the same.
Ultimately, the key is making sure that, if you do decide to use stock imagery for your brand, it’s not that your website is full of stock imagery or that your Instagram grid is just stock imagery because people can tell. They’ll know. It speaks to that “know, like, and trust” factor in your brand, but it’s important to also then go out and create your own visuals – whether it’s graphics, whether it’s imagery, whether it’s videos – and be able to mix that in that very cohesive way that generally forms that overall visual brand.
Mia Fileman 6:45
Yes, it’s like fashion – high, low. You can have the statement skirt, and you can put it with an H&M top – no problem! It works great.
Sandra Chau 6:52
Yes, I think so.
I think it’s just a matter of knowing how to pair it together and not picking things that clash.
With stock imagery, you have got a lot of different styles. You have got a lot of different aesthetics, a lot of different stories, and a lot of different categories of stock for different kinds of businesses. You’ve just got to make sure you’re using the right stock imagery for your brand.
Mia Fileman 7:17
You think you can use it throughout all of your channels – including the Instagram grid?
We tend to just use stock imagery now for lead magnets and that, but I don’t think I’ve shared a stock image to my Instagram profile in years.
Sandra Chau 7:39
I know. When you think of stock imagery, you think of that really corny old-school stock photo, but I have seen some these days where sometimes you wouldn’t even be able to tell they are stock.
When it starts to stick out is when all you use on your grid and your website are stock imagery and perhaps you don’t really show up. As a brand owner, when you start to show up a lot more, people can see the personality behind the brand.
Stock imagery doesn’t necessarily support that. It doesn’t really come across through stock imagery. If you just have that, people won’t really feel you as part of the
brand. It becomes noticeable. It becomes that generic brand.
I still think it’s okay to use, but I wouldn’t use it constantly throughout.
Mia Fileman 8:33
Yes, I think there are two things I want to pick up there.
One is that I want to hear your tips for good stock image libraries because obviously I am not fishing in the right pond. I hope you can dish some of that.
Also, I feel like maybe part of the problem with stock imagery is that it is so perfectly polished. It’s three glasses lined up gorgeously. It is so overly manicured. Especially when social and digital media, we are moving away from that perfectly curated perfect aesthetics to a little bit authentic – for lack of a better word. I hate that word so much! What does it even mean? A little bit unfiltered, I guess.
Sandra Chau 9:20
I like that you mentioned that. This is a conversation I have with a lot of people – whether to post more raw photos. Again, like I said before, not all photos are created equal. They all have different purposes.
If I look at my Instagram grid, for example, my business is all about aesthetics. It wouldn’t really make sense for me to share a lot of raw images on my grid. I do that through my stories which show a lot of my iPhone photos or behind-the-scenes photos. It works in that way because it works for my brand.
But if it was for you, Mia, true – you are a service-based business. You are the person everyone is going to be talking to. You are the face of the brand. That said, you are not an influencer. I wouldn’t expect you to constantly be snapping away on your iPhone – you with your latte or you with those raw unfiltered images on your grid because, at the end of the day, it still forms a bit of your portfolio for your brand.
That said, if you are an influencer, it makes total sense for everything to be very raw. It always comes back to what makes sense for your brand. What kind of business are you running? What is the personality behind your brand to make those kinds of decisions? I think that’s the biggest trap that people fall into sometimes.
“Everyone’s saying you should show up like an influencer and dance and do all the trends and all those things.” But if it doesn’t really make sense for your brand or it doesn’t fit with the brand personality and everything, then it’s going to stick out like a sore thumb and it’s not really going to make sense. Over time, it’s hard to keep up and maintain if it’s not authentic – if we can come back to the word authentic.
Mia Fileman 11:10
Totally. That’s such a good point.
The last time I did a brand photoshoot was just a few months ago. We got something like a hundred images. I don’t think I need to bother with the iPhone happy snap, really. Now, it’s a new way.
Photography used to be you’d get the ten images and then you’d have to pay extra for the library. Now, because we understand how much content people create, you get everything. Within those, there are some beautiful headshots and some beautiful lifestyle shots, but there are also some nice bloopers and things like that which I guess is to show a nice balance of you – that it is not all perfect.
Do you have any stock libraries that you recommend for people to check out?
Sandra Chau 12:00
That’s a really good question. I want to be really honest with you, Mia. I don’t.
Mia Fileman 12:08
No worries! Great!
Sandra Chau 12:10
Not off the top of my head because I personally don’t use them.
Mia Fileman 12:13
Yes, sure.
Sandra Chau 12:15
But I can get back to you on that one, though. If you want to plug them in anyway.
Mia Fileman 12:18
Actually, Unsplash – overused; Social Squares – also overused; same deal with Pexel.
But there is a stock library called Stocksy. It is significantly more expensive than other stock libraries. I went and had a look one day and found the most perfect Del Mar image – Amalfi Coast vibes, Aperol Spritz. That is our brand to a tee.
I think I paid 35 Australian dollars for one image which is a lot. You can get a monthly subscription to Social Squares for about that. But it is great. It is exactly as you said, Sandra. It is one of those images that doesn’t feel like stock. It feels like it could have been shot and no one else is using it because no one is paying $35.00 for an image except for me!
Sandra Chau 13:08
Another point – if it’s that one image, no one is going to pick it out among the lot or anything.
There is that trick to it – not a trick but a skill to weaving in imagery. If we circle back to what you were saying with your brand shoot where you got hundreds of photos, if you go back and go through them, I reckon you will be able to find what I call “custom stock images” which are non-specific. Maybe almost environment-based or lifestyle-based that you could weave. They are stock images, but they are your own stock images.
Mia Fileman 13:45
Yes. Oh, my gosh. There’s such a good one where it’s just my hands. You see my nail polish colour. It is such an artistic and creative image. We actually used it as part of our last campaign. There is a reflection to the table. You can see the nails, but then you see the reflection of the nails. You don’t see my face. You don’t even know it’s me. It is so cool!
That leads us perfectly into how to prepare for a brand shoot because I know you and I agree on this 100 percent. There is so much more than meets the eye when it comes to nailing a campaign shoot. I would love for you to share your considerations, but then I would also have to add mine.
Sandra Chau 14:33
Absolutely!
For me, personally, I spend a lot more time on the prep than the actual photoshoot. A photoshoot may be five to eight hours, depending on what you are shooting. But I could spend a good 20 to 30 hours before the shoot.
The thing that I go through with a lot of my students is that concept board thinking about the purpose of your photoshoot. Depending on what the purpose of the shoot is, what you shoot is going to be different. That is a small thing that people don’t think about sometimes.
If you were a service-based business, is the shoot for a launch? Or is it because you want to create some new collateral or anything like that? You have got to think about what you are creating for.
Moodboarding is a big thing for me. The key is to not pin images that you want to copy because if you just pull a lot of reference images, you tend to just recreate, and you are not necessarily thinking about your brand.
I always ask my students to think, “How do you want people to feel when they see these images from your shoot that you are about to do?” and thinking about that then pinning images around those kinds of feelings so you can get that overall vibe and mood for the photoshoot.
Then, we go into a lot of detail about the venue that you are sourcing, the clothes that you are going to be wearing, the props that you are going to be using, and even the team that you pull together – whether that is reflective of the story that you want to be telling.
Are they able to shoot in your style and aesthetic? Are they able to shoot in the vibe of your brand? A lot of the time, you might see a photographer and they are really big at the moment. They are shooting for a lot of people, so you approach them and book them, but if they are a completely different style to what you are going for, then it is just a waste of photo shoot.
The prep work for me is key. We will spend hours and hours doing that even before we actually get to the shoot to execute it. I always put together a shoot deck for my team that I run through with my photographer, videographer, and everybody who is a part of the shoot so that everyone rocks up on the day knowing what to expect, what we are doing, and what we are trying to achieve.
Mia Fileman 16:48
I love that so much.
Yes, we follow the 80/20 of pre-production to production. It is unbelievable how much time and effort we put into our shoots. The briefs and even the location sourcing because I am trying to recreate a Mediterranean Amalfi Coast vibe in Darwin or in Melbourne. It’s not quite right, but that is our brand. It’s Campaign Del Mar. So much effort went into location sourcing.
You have to make sure that the photographer is available on the date that the venue is available and at the same time that I am available. I reckon 30 hours.
Sandra Chau 17:31
Yes, it’s a bit of a logistical nightmare.
If you ever need any ideas on venues, let me know. I love looking for venues. I have got a few sites that are really good, too.
Mia Fileman 17:31
Do you? Cool!
Sandra Chau 17:44
A lot of them have that Amalfi Coast feel to it.
Mia Fileman 17:47
Awesome. Well, we absolutely nailed it. We found this little pop-up bar in a laneway. There was even a – what’s the scooter called?
Sandra Chau 17:59
Vespa!
Mia Fileman 18:02
Vespa! It even had a red Vespa! I was like, “You have got to be kidding me! How good is this?”
Sandra Chau 18:09
Perfect!
Mia Fileman 18:10
Are there any top tips for getting the most out of the actual day?
If you are the brand custodian and you are in your own images and it is your money and you are planning for the shoot, that is like a dual role because in our professional career – like you and I – I would do the art director role. I was not in the shoot. I could stand on the outside, look in and observe, and make whatever changes. But now the rules of the game have changed. We have to be the art director of our own shoots, but then we also have to star in them which is really complicated.
Are there any top tips that you have for people that are in that situation?
Sandra Chau 18:56
That’s a really great question.
Again, it comes down to being super prepared. I do this especially for my really big shoots. Detailed shot list. I think about the flow of the day. You have already thought about this. You have already thought about where you are going to be shooting. From those scenes, what are the shots that we must tick off?
This is really good, especially if you are doing your own shoot and you are not doing this all the time for yourself. Shoots go by really quick. You know that, Mia. Time flies by. You would be surprised how much you can miss if you are not really prepared.
I put together a shoot deck which includes shot list plus reference images. This is something that I go through with my photographer before the shoot on a call. We run through it. We are all on the same page. We know what we are trying to do.
On the day of the shoot, I will be like, “Do you remember how we talked about meeting some front-on shots of me? Have we done those yet?” Don’t be afraid to ask the photographer, “Would it be okay if I have a look?”
Mia Fileman 20:01
Yes!
Sandra Chau 20:01
Especially now where we wear so many hats in our businesses. Being the creative director of your brand is one of them. You know your brand best. You know what you need. You know what the shoot is for. You came up with it. Chances are you have had these discussions.
It’s really important to be able to communicate with your team. It’s all about doing it in a respectful way – not in a way that steps on anyone’s toes. Be like, “Hey! Do you remember how we needed some landscape images for the first few images on my website? Have we got them yet?”
I do this with my photographers now even though we have worked together for years. A lot of the times, they will be like, “Thanks for reminding me! I need to check that off!” Those simple check-ins along the way make a huge difference to making sure that you are getting what you need. When you are in front of the lens, sometimes it’s like, “Is it okay if I have a quick look?” because you don’t know.
A photographer is not a mind reader. You are not a mind reader. It’s really important to have good communication on a shoot day and be open to chat about things and ask questions.
Mia Fileman 21:08
Not all surprises are good. They are not all good.
I am so glad you brought that up because that is non-negotiable for me. Usually, I have a monitor that I would be staring at. I tell my students the exact same thing. I need you to be looking at the footage as it is coming out of the camera. It is not going to be perfect. It is not graded or edited or whatever. But it is not going to be wildly off.
If something is not right, then now is the time to pick it up. I’m really glad that you mentioned that.
“Got Marketing?” is brought to you by Campaign Del Mar – a marketing education platform for marketers and entrepreneurs.
Learn practical, repeatable, and actionable steps to market with confidence. Nail your email marketing strategy or join “Campaign Classroom” and learn how to create memorable and effective marketing campaigns.
These are not the kind of online programs where you are left floundering, unsure how to put theory into practice, nor will these programs sit unfinished for months. You can expect hands-on tailored advice, accountability, and a supportive community, and you will walk away with life-long marketing skills.
Learn more at campaigndelmar.com.
I’m sure this is your zone of genius, too. But one of my favourite little things to do is really focus on the props. There is so much, “Yes, we have got the right location, and I am wearing the right outfit. Good to go!” But we can take something from good to great if we just focus a little bit more on the finer details.
Making sure the handbag also fits with the aesthetic, the vase in the background. We have espresso cups in a lot of our shoots because Amalfi Coast vibes! The espresso cups are on-brand colours. I’m sure you agree.
Does anything else come to mind in terms of props?
Sandra Chau 23:15
Yes, I think props are important. It comes back to thinking about your style, what you are trying to achieve for the shoot, making sure that it matches, and making sure everything is cohesive. This is what I do with a lot of my clients because part of my job is post-production.
Before you get those hundreds of images, Mia, I probably would have cut that down from thousands. I do that post-production work for my clients. Sometimes, it is a matter of “that cup was sitting there a bit weird and looked odd, so let’s scrap that image.”
I always tell my students that it requires a lot of discipline to not share something if it’s not right – not to just use it, spam it all over our feeds purely because we have it. Sometimes, making those small finer decisions can make or break something you put out there.
Obviously, I do this for a living. I am a little bit more critical sometimes on Instagram when I am scrolling through images. I will be like, “That photo would have been so much better if that cup just wasn’t there! Or if it was white and not pink!” or something like that.
Taking the time to go through your images afterwards and then selecting your favourites from that because you have gone through it with a fine-toothed comb can really help in terms of how you show up visually for your brand. It’s that difference between looking a bit sloppy versus professional.
Mia Fileman 24:51
I am sure there are going to be people listening and going, “Why does it matter? Is it really going to influence sales and profitability?” What do you say to that?
Sandra Chau 24:59
I think it matters because I think your online brand and your presence matters. It speaks to your professionalism, the quality of your work which ultimately then speaks to your price point. If your grid looks sloppy and your website looks sloppy or too DIY or unprofessional, then people aren’t going to be paying you thousand of dollars for your services because it doesn’t feel like they will get that quality.
It works hand in hand in terms of building that trust in your brand. True; one photo probably won’t make or break, but it’s really important to get into that intentional way of looking at things for your brand and being intentional with what you are putting out there because, ultimately, all those decisions come together to form that overall brand of yours and that is what people are going to remember and connect with.
There is nothing worse than seeing a beautiful Instagram grid; everything is fantastic, and that person looks like they are worth a million bucks, and you are going to pay them tens of thousands of dollars for their services. You go to the website, and it is not the same. That trust factor automatically drops and people aren’t going to be thinking, “Maybe I wouldn’t pay tens of thousands of dollars for her.”
Making those kinds of decisions ultimately affect things along the way, so I do think it is important to go through things with a fine-toothed comb.
Mia Fileman 26:31
Yes, I agree. I can illustrate this with an example.
I go to the gym in the morning. I get there ten minutes before the class starts. It just works out that way that I can drop kids and get to the gym. I have made it a bit of a commitment that, since I am there for ten minutes, I am going to record a TikTok video and get it done. Otherwise, you end up overthinking and it doesn’t happen.
But then, I have been looking at my TikTok videos. You know what the problem is, Sandra? I am in activewear in every single one. You know what that is signalling to my audience? That I am a marketing strategic for fitness brands, and I am not!
I was like, “This is so timely! I am going to talk to Sandra about this tonight!”
Great to get it done in ten minutes, but I can’t be wearing activewear in every single video because I never work in activewear. I go to the gym in activewear. I am not the sort of brand that hangs around in activewear all day.
Sandra Chau 27:37
Realising that is good because now you can be like, “Let’s show up another five minutes earlier and switch back into my activewear.” Those little decisions actually change things significantly.
It’s all about your brand perception. Ultimately, that is the thing that sells for you. That is the thing that communicates your quality, your price point, and all of those things. It’s really important to make sure that whatever you put out there is actually consistent and on-brand.
I use my Instagram purely for business. An example would be I do share my kids a little bit here and there. Because I am a stylist, people usually expect my house to be beautifully styled – curated and everything – but it couldn’t be any further. I’ve got six-year-old twin boys who destroy everything. My house is basically like a primary-coloured playground.
Whenever you see me post about my kids, you might notice it now after I tell you, I am there in black and white so that it sits a little bit more in line with my aesthetic and doesn’t really stick out like a sore thumb. With those little decisions, it fits a little bit better.
Mia Fileman 28:53
Yes, I only use Instagram for business. I do not have time for personal social media accounts or inclination.
Sandra Chau 29:03
I completely feel you.
Mia Fileman 29:05
After it’s been your job every day for three years, you are like, “I don’t feel I have anything to add to the Instagram platform.” So true.
I am sure there are people listening and going, “Yes, but you are a stylish and creative director, and you are a marketer, and I am a lawyer or an accountant. My visual brand doesn’t have to look as good as yours.” I disagree. Do you?
Sandra Chau 29:36
I absolutely disagree because it doesn’t have to look as curated and perfect as mine because I am in the business of selling aesthetics, but it still needs to be professional in order for people to trust you enough to want to work with you and book you.
I think it’s still important – even as a lawyer – you wouldn’t want influencer-like raw photos all the time. I would want to see some professional photos – whether it’s a view or whether it’s you while working with clients or the type of work that you do. All those things are important to brand building. It’s important especially as a lawyer perhaps as a personal brand.
It’s really thinking about showing up professionally because, at the end of the day, if we are running businesses, we need to show up professionally. Otherwise, why would anybody work with you?
Mia Fileman 30:26
Yes.
Also, there is a cognitive bias called “what is beautiful is good” effect. It’s an evidence-based heuristic which basically says that humans are attracted to beautiful objects which is why we love our babies – because they are so cute and probably why babies are so cute – because then parents will love them, and they will need to look after them.
We see that. We feel more trusting of people and brands when it is beautiful. As shallow as that may seem, it is how our brains are wired.
Sandra Chau 31:10
Yes, absolutely!
If you think about your own buying habits, I am talking about products here, but if you see two necklaces that are seemingly the same and they are both a few hundred dollars, which one are you going to buy? The one that got the better photo? Or the one that looks like you did it on your desk at home in poor lighting? Little things like that actually make a huge difference to that buyer psychology.
It’s the same even if you sell services. If you don’t come across as professional, then why would someone trust you? It ultimately comes back to building the trust.
Mia Fileman 31:53
Totally. Absolutely.
I also think that there is an expectation these days. Customers know that Canva exists. They know that you can get incredibly photography through the latest iPhone, ring lights, microphones for podcasting, email marketing software exists and it’s cheap.
Now, customers are like, “Well, where was my confirmation email? I need the confirmation email! I am expecting an onboarding experience. I am expecting personalisation. I am expecting good audio quality, good lighting.” Those things are now not just reserved for the creative directors of the world. They are very accessible to everyday brands. It’s actually the cost of doing business, I would argue.
Sandra Chau 32:42
Yes, I think so.
Good visuals are the bare minimum now.
Mia Fileman 32:46
That’s right.
Sandra Chau 32:47
Otherwise, you cannot cut through the noise, especially now.
I started my business when there wasn’t Instagram. That was a huge change. Now, with Instagram, and the more things that are added to it, it’s such a scroll-scroll-scroll kind of world.
If your visuals aren’t up to scratch, you are not going to make them stop. If you can’t make them stop, it doesn’t matter how amazing your messaging is, or how much money is spent on that copywriter to write all that amazing sales converting copy. If you can’t make people stop, they are not going to read it anyway. Do you know what I mean?
We live in a very visual world. Like you said, it’s just what you’ve got to do if you’re building a business.
Mia Fileman 33:32
Yes.
Do you know what I really struggle with especially? The Instagram grid. Mine is a little bit of a hot mess. I am just going to own that right now. Sorry. It’s all there. It’s all consistent brand colours, consistent brand fonts, professional imagery.
It’s just that I will go and put two text-based posts next to each other as opposed to putting in nice breaks. That comes from a place of “This is what I want to talk about tonight. This is what’s timely. This is what’s strategic.” I have traded in the grid a little bit so that I can keep my content aligned with what I want to talk about on that particular day.
Where do you sit on that?
Sandra Chau 34:23
I think it’s okay for your business, though. As a service-based business, it’s a little bit different in terms of how you might utilise your visuals. Your visuals might actually comprise a lot more graphics and tech-based visuals, right? Whatever works for you.
I always say to my students, “Try and let people’s eyes breathe. Allow them that room to breathe.” The grid can be overwhelming, right? If it’s always a lot of text, then sometimes they will go, “Ugh. I don’t really want to click into this. It’s just too much.” I’m kind of like that. But then, I’m a very visual kind of person, so it’s a little bit different – depending on your audience.
Sometimes, you can put an image there, but then your text is still there. The messaging is still there. It’s exactly the same. You don’t always have to post a visual that corresponds with your text, if that makes sense.
Mia Fileman 35:18
Yes!
Sandra Chau 35:21
A lot of the time, you can go into my grid. I’m posting some really pretty photo of something that I styled. The copy has nothing to do with it. I’m not describing what’s in the photo. I’m not describing anything like that. I’m still putting my messaging out there, but then the image that I chose is something that I think people will stop to then see, pay attention, and then read what I have to say.
I like to give people room to breathe on the grid, but I think it’s a little bit different when you are an aesthetically-driven business or an e-commerce business versus a service-based business.
Mia Fileman 35:54
I love that tip. That’s so good.
Actually, you can have a lot of fun with it. “What can I write to accompany this image that seemingly has nothing to do with it?”
I remember once I was like, “Campaigns are not pineapples.” I wanted to talk about how a pineapple is instantly recognisable. You can look at a pineapple and you can call it a pineapple. The thing is that you cannot instantly tell just by looking at one thing that it’s a campaign. It may or it may not be. Then, it’s like, “Ah! All of a sudden, we can now put pineapples in the image! Who would have thought?”
Sandra Chau 36:38
Yes. Also, with you Mia, if you suddenly started posting a little bit more of your imagery, some people might be like, “That’s a little bit different for Mia. Let me see what she’s got to say.” Sometimes, using visuals as that showstopping mechanism is a really good strategy.
I like to do that. I like to post things that make people go, “Oh! This is really nice!” and then see what I have to say that has nothing to do with the photo. I’m not talking about the styling. I’m not talking about the client. I’m not talking about anything. I’m probably selling my horse while I’m doing that. It has nothing to do with it.
It’s just a nice way, especially on a platform like Instagram where we are scrolling through so many things. Sometimes, text-based images don’t really stop people because there are so many of them now, especially now that carousels are in at the moment. Everyone’s got the text-based carousel, right?
People tend to stop for other things. It’s just about those little things that set you apart from other people or might be like, “Finally, something that’s not text based.” You never really know. I really like to play around with those kinds of things because different things you put out there are going to resonate with different people.
Even though your audience might all be service providers or people looking to learn marketing from you, maybe some of them actually resonate more towards a picture, some might actually prefer getting their messaging from you through a reel, and some might be like, “No, I just need to read it.”
People digest information very differently. I think it’s really important to put out a mix of visuals and that’s what I typically try to do, but then also just play around with it and have fun with it. That makes it a lot easier.
Mia Fileman 38:18
For sure!
The thing that I feel a lot of people like me struggle with is a photo of Mia is going to outperform anything else significantly. It just is. I don’t know why, but it does, so then that’s where you see these grids that are wall-to-wall the founder’s photos because they do absolutely outperform anything else.
But I really love what you said about the images that are not of people can still be showstopping. It’s also a really great opportunity to give people a break and to breathe. I think that’s fabulous.
Sandra Chau 39:02
Play around with it. You never know.
Sometimes, it’s a waste – some of the images. We always think, “I’m just going to pull all the photos of myself. I’m sure if you dig through those hundreds of images, there’s probably something really cool to use.” Like the hand photo that you mentioned before.
It might be like, “This is something different! Let’s see what Mia has to say about that!” Then, put what you would have ordinarily put under some other photo and see how it goes.
Building our brands is just one big experiment, right? It’s constantly changing. I think it’s also just what works best for your brand. It’s never going to be the same as the other person who is doing the same thing as you.
Mia Fileman 39:44
Beautiful! What a great place to wrap up! Thank you so much, Sandra!
How can people get in touch with you? Obviously, straight after this, we are all going to go and stalk your Instagram to see what you do and check out these images and try to reverse-engineer this. That’s happening. What’s your handle so that we can make it easy for people?
Sandra Chau 40:04
Yes, just come find me on Instagram @sandrachaudesign. Drop me a DM. I’d love to connect with you. I’m always on Instagram sharing my current projects, strategies, tips and tricks, and all of those things. Come find me there. That’s probably the best place.
Mia Fileman 40:18
Great. We’ll put everything in the show notes, so that we make it really easy for you to find Sandra.
Thank you! It has been an absolute pleasure chatting with you! I loved everything that you said! I really appreciate it!
Sandra Chau 40:32
Thanks so much for having me, Mia!
Mia Fileman 40:35
Thank you!
You listened right up until the end, so why not hit that subscribe button and keep the good marketing rolling?
Podcast reviews are like warm hugs. They’re also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia Fileman, on Instagram or LinkedIn. Feel free to send me a message! I’m super friendly.
