00:00:00] Mia Fileman
Are you tired of empty promises and stolen ideas? Me too. Got. Marketing is a podcast for marketers and small brands who want real talk and clever strategies without the bs. Running an online business is hard, but everything gets easier when your marketing starts performing. I am Mia FileMan, your straight shooting campaign loving friend here to talk marketing, running a business, pop culture, and everything in between.
Let's dive in.
Hello friend, and welcome back to Got Marketing. You know, I love chatting with interesting people who are creating trailblazing businesses. And doing really good in the world. So today I am joined by one of the founders of the big [00:01:00] Sister experience who offer wellbeing workshops in schools across Australia, delivering programs about mental health, body image, and resilience. So today I am chatting with Chris. Uh, sadly Bianca was dealing with a kid situation about how. Her and her sister have built and marketed a mission-driven business that changes lives. Welcome to Gut Marketing. Chris. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, my absolute pleasure. I was so excited to connect with you about Ripple Festival, which you will be attending.
Kritz Sciessere
Yes. Can't wait. Excited to meet you there in the flesh. But I would love to hear from you how this extraordinary business, the big sister experience came about. Yes. Well, thank you. Um, I can't wait for Ripple Fest either. Countdown is on. Uh, so the big sister experience actually started in 2019, but before this.
My sister Bianca and I were classroom teachers, [00:02:00] so we were teaching primary school, and I've always been really passionate about mental health and wellbeing and making sure I weave it through all elements of my teaching pedagogy. But I was looking for some external programs out there that could kind of teach more of these skills.
And I was on the hunt and just really limited at the time, and Bianca and I started to kind of. Put our minds together and think, well, why can't we kind of start something ourselves? We've got the education background. We had the passion for wellbeing, so we kind of both put our minds together and created the big sister experience program.
And back in 2019 it looked very different to what it looks like today. But basically we just started out there, just her and I getting into schools teaching. Speaking to teachers, speaking to parents, speaking to young people. What do you want? What do you wish you knew more of? What do you wish your young person knew?
And just kind of really delving into that grassroots [00:03:00] market research, I guess you could say, about what was missing from the wellbeing space. And the big sister experience was really born from that. And then over the next six years, it's really evolved into what it is today. So a bigger program, a bigger team.
And reaching more young people across the state and country. And what is the impact that you seek to create with the big sister experience? 'cause it is a purpose-driven organization. Yeah. So we're on a mission to kind of inspire the next generation through self-love and self-care to become the capable, resilient, and empowered people of tomorrow.
And that's really our mission to empower and inspire young people with. Knowledge just so they can make those choices a little bit more informed. And we're not here to say we're gonna make everything easier and we've got all the answers. But what we are there to say is, this was my journey. This is what I learn, and I wish I knew earlier.
And if we can kind of inspire and support even one young person in the room, [00:04:00] that's really our mission.
Mia
It's so sad, isn't it, with the rise of social and digital media, what that has done too. Young girls confidence, and someone that talks about this a lot is Jonathan Hyde, who talks about particularly teenage girls. The effects on social media on them have been disastrous. And seeing what Dove real beauty have done from a marketing campaign perspective highlighting how many teenage girls feel that they need to have cosmetic surgery to change their appearance. Mm-hmm. Before they even have any of these, I know wrinkles on their face.
Kritz
Yeah. It's, it's devastating.
Mia
Yeah. It really is.
Kritz
And we actually show a lot of their campaign, the Dove campaigns in our workshops because it really. Just highlights and is a complete mirror to what is actually going on. And, and it is, it's quite sad and the young people are somewhat aware of it, but somewhat not as well.
So how can we just bring light and raise [00:05:00] these conversations with the young people to make them a little bit more aware of the impact social media's having on their self-confidence?
Mia
Oh, 100%. So you are that purpose driven organization that we mentioned, but you're also a business. Mm. So I would love to look a little bit at your current revenue model.
How do you make money?
Kritz
So it's really interesting that you say that. A lot of people that kind of hear about the Big Sister experience program assume that we are a charity. Mm. And in the early days, we really did look into that. But the reason why we didn't choose to go down that that kind of road is because Bianca and I.
Love what we do. This all comes from the heart and we really wanted to be the final decision makers. So it was always knowing that even though we are a social enterprise and we are a heart driven, impact driven business, we still do need to kind of make that money to make it sustainable. So the workshops is a really big part of our, our revenue [00:06:00] stream.
In fact, at the moment, apart from government funding, that is the only form of revenue that our business has. And we're at that kind of precipice in the business where we need to kind of branch out into other revenues, but we are kind of still with that small business mindset. So we're kind of at that six year mark where we know we have to branch into other revenue streams and what does that look like? And. Where does the woman power come from to do that? So at the moment it's just the workshops as well as government funding that public schools get to bring us into their program within Victoria. I think that's such a good point that you made about the fact that you wanted to retain control and decision making and how.
Mia
This idea of being a not-for-profit, you do to a certain degree need to seed some of that control to Yes. Compliance. A board.
Kritz
And a board.
Mia
Exactly. So I think that that's a really good point. I mean, it's easy to say that your passion for something is going to sustain [00:07:00] forever, but if you aren't paying yourself a salary, then really how long can you keep doing the good work before you realize I actually need to go and And earn an income.
Kritz
Yes, exactly. And I think that a lot of business owners will know that kind of moment. In the early years, I know Bianca and I were still working full time and then we were trying to get the business up and running and we weren't paying ourselves for years. And like you said, it's just kind of that unsustainable level that you go, okay, are we gonna quit our full-time jobs and throw ourselves into this? And, you know, pedal, paddle, paddle, paddle, and make ourselves swim. Or otherwise, it's just kind of unsustainable. So yeah, it's finding that balance. And, and we also are social traders verified, which means that we do have evidence to show that the, the revenue that we do bring in is reinvested back into the mission and the purpose.
So we always do everything to make sure that we're kind of sticking to that social enterprise model as well.
Mia
Amazing. A big issue for [00:08:00] many small business owners when they're starting out is figuring out the pricing. How do I set a price for this?
Kritz
Mm. So with the workshops, I'm really keen to hear how did you figure out the pricing in the early days?
Ah, we did it. So I think the first thing that we did was really utilize our networks and that what that looked like was speaking to people. That were in the education system, whether they be teachers, principals, and saying, you know, when you get a program in, what's the kind of costing? Is it per head? Is it per group?
And we would kind of suss out like that, what the pricing looked like in terms of a per head cost, or if it was a group cost. And we spoke to a few different people. But I would say our mission at the start was to just get in front of as many schools as we could. So even though we had. Our price and our pricing structure.
It was extremely flexible. We did a lot, uh, you know, out of the goodness of our hearts. We traveled around. [00:09:00] We, we really worked with school budgets to see what little they could give us. And also, you know, having started and also running the business yourself. Like I said, we were working on the other end full time.
You do kind of have that time and energy to give the business to know that in the long run this is gonna pay off. So although we, we sussed out different programs and what they were pricing, I would say pricing was very flexible in the beginning.
Mia
And how do you balance this tension of like, doing good and focusing on creating positive social?
Kritz
Yeah. But also charging enough to cover your team and your expenses and your time. Yeah, so I think that's a really good question. And obviously now as the business has grown and developed, we do work with accountants and people to actually work out the pricing that is fair, so that it covers. If we say we have a full day workshop, it's not just our people that show up at at eight and leave at four. There's so much planning and kind of investment [00:10:00] in education of our team and the program, and then the booking process and the aftercare process. So taking all of that into account and having a pricing structure that reflects those. Invested hours outside of the workshop is something that, and also then sticking to awards for our staff.
And if they're traveling overnight or if they're traveling further than three hours, there's things that kind of legally have to come in place as well. So I think working with an external financial advisor and an accountant is really helpful now when we have a more firm pricing structure. And then also knowing that us investing in our team and educating them.
Further strengthens our impact and the support that we give the schools after we leave in terms of resources. That's kind of ongoing, giving back to the impact. So just knowing that the value that we bring in our workshops last so much more than the day is what we've really found helps that balance between doing good, but then being able [00:11:00] to sustain it as a business.
Mia
It's really sad, isn't it? That like there's an expectation a little bit or an unspoken rule that because. The schools that are investing in this are doing good, and they, it's coming out of their budget for X, Y, and Z. And so it should be done on the cheap. And yeah, I've definitely experienced this firsthand being asked to speak at an International Women's Day event, which, which so ironic, but being told that because the proceeds of the day are going to charity, I should not get paid to fly across the country and speak at an event.
And it's like, mm, yeah, it's, uh, yeah, I, I definitely can. That you and B are in. You work directly with schools and through some government funding channels, how does that shape your marketing?
Kritz
So I think one thing that is different and helpful within the school, uh, marketing [00:12:00] scene is that. They're kind of clusters.
In a lot of schools, a lot of principals know each other. A lot of teachers know each other in terms of networks. So in terms of marketing, the word of mouth, I would say is a very big one in our industry. You know, nobody wants to go first with a program. So back in the early days, that's why we were like, you know, let us come in, see, see how it is, and then they would tell their network. So I think word of mouth is a really big one. And then working with the Department of Education. They also send monthly edms and marketing comms to all public schools across Victoria. So in terms of marketing, that's really handy for us that that's kind of done for us in the background. There are some other kind of forms of.
Marketing, we've dabbled in, but within the school space, it's something that we've found quite tricky to navigate because there's so many different levels that you need to get through in terms of approving a program. So for [00:13:00] example, we can be marketing in a magazine, for example, that sits on the staff room table.
And that staff member loves it and is all about it, and then they kind of go to leadership and, and we hit kind of a roadblock. So it has been a lot of trial and error in terms of us for marketing within the school space. Uh, and I, I can't say that I've got it all figured out. No.
Mia
it's, it's interesting that the school. Ecosystem is a little bit about keeping up with the Joneses and it's like, yeah, well, because Tinter had this, yes. Now Lauriston has to have it, you know, and yeah. Okay. That's really.
Kritz
yeah, we find that, and you know, we started working with one Catholic school and then. We had a reach out from a lot of other Catholic schools, so definitely it's the word of mouth, way to go. So the wellbeing and education space is super crowded. How has the big sister experience stood out from all of this noise? Mm, definitely crowded. I think when we started, there were programs out there, but there's definitely a lot more now. [00:14:00] I think the, the really big difference that comes with the big sister experience is founded by two sisters and ex classroom teachers. So I think unless you know you have been a teacher, it's really hard to actually understand the space and how it works and. We don't get that many holidays a year we're working through and things like that. So I think being able to, especially me when I work with schools and that relationship building, actually understanding how the system operates is a really, it's a clicking point with the teachers that I'm talking to and myself. So, you know, we try to make the processes easy as possible, knowing they've got a lot on their plate. I think also a really big difference with our team. Um, we have 15 on the team now. All of our big sisters have a background in mental health and wellbeing. So we have bachelor of social work and psychology and art therapists, and. We really pride ourselves on sending people into the space that are trained in the space. And [00:15:00] I think there are a lot of wellbeing programs out there that are doing amazing things, but sometimes we send these facilitators in that don't have the training to hold these big emotions and these big spaces.
And if I've learnt anything from. After COVID, there are a lot more prevalent mental health and wellbeing issues than ever before. So we really pride ourselves on, on sending qualified people in to be able to deal with the space and then setting up a psychologically safe space as well. Because the reality is we're coming in for one day, um, maybe up to three, but over a period of time, so. We need to know what our role is, and that is giving them the skills to seek help and connecting them with those stable, trusted people in their lives that aren't just gonna be kind of opening up a can of worms and then leaving again for the teachers to deal with. So I think that's what sets us apart in terms of the safety we provide, as well as just an emerging program. Everything's changing so quickly [00:16:00] that if you don't keep up, you're irrelevant, especially to the young people. So our content's always changing.
Mia
Your brand feels really warm, sisterly, trustworthy, but also appealing to a younger audience. Was that intentional or was that organic?
Kritz
So my sister and I are literally best friends, business partners, every, everything we've lived together.
Everyone is very intrigued by our bonds, so I think our values are so closely aligned that everything we've decided in the business has always needed to feel aligned for us. We use our gut a lot in business decisions, and I just think that also expanding the team, we're like, okay, what are your values?
We can train you in the workshops. And I think that having that drive and that. Making sure we stick true to that has kind of organically grown the team to feel like that and and it's really lovely for you to hear that 'cause that's what we want. [00:17:00] But I would say that was organic and then hopefully the kind of branding is to speak to young people.
Was aligning that both.
Mia
Yeah. So I'd love to hear from you any surprising marketing wins or unexpected challenges with marketing? What has it been like? Marketing this business. Yeah, so I would say a lot of challenges, like I said in the beginning and still now, it's navigating different marketing options and a lot of them failing or us not actually seeing the kind of return on investment.
If you wanna say, and, and as you start a business, funds are tight and you do make these big investments in things that you hope will come back and sometimes you don't see that return. I think the biggest challenge for us is actually identifying what marketing does work within the school spaces. And I think the biggest kind of win for us in terms of marketing our business is when Bianca and I [00:18:00] go and we speak and we present and we connect with like amazing humans like you.
Or we go to Ripple Festival and we get to meet people in the space and people think, oh, they actually walk the walk instead of just talk the talk. Then they're more willing to kind of look at our program or invest and bring us into the girls. So I think us as co-founders being present and having those opportunities to speak, uh, has been one of the best kind of marketing of our programs in terms of, oh, okay. It starts at the top. And then kind of ripples down. So I'll definitely say that. Speaking opportunities
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Mia
Yeah, speaking has a really great return on investment, and I don't know if you've done a lot of podcasts, but you are a very good guest.
Kritz
Oh, thank you.
Mia
Yeah. Yeah, there's not a lot of ums and ahs. You're very confident. You keep your answers really succinct, so I definitely feel like this is something that you could play to your strengths a lot.
Kritz
Thank you. I do love my passion is now working with educators and parents. Uh, having become a parent myself as well, I've got a whole new level of empathy towards parents, but I do love the public speaking. You know, you, you work so [00:20:00] long, kind of getting the business up and running that. Now I feel like I'm at the point where I'm like, yeah, I wanna go out there, spread the word about the big sister experience and, and speak to my passion and why I love doing what I'm doing.
So yeah, definitely enjoy opportunities like this. So thank you.
Mia
Oh, of course. It's, it's great, great content for me. So it's really win-win. What I love about your marketing content is the approach to storytelling. Mm-hmm. So how do you navigate sharing personal experiences without it feeling, you know, heavy?
So how do you, how do you walk that line?
Kritz
I think there's been a real kind of shift in social media perspectives of the reality. For example, somebody kind of setting up a camera and crying and then people questioning was this. Was this real or what was the intention of this? And I think it is very difficult to walk that authentic line of storytelling while also being a professional business. So some guidelines that we've put in [00:21:00] place about ourselves and with our staff is if you are currently living it and you're going through it and it's very raw for you, this isn't something that we want to be sharing. So the big sister experience kind of comes from a proactive preventative approach. If you've worked through this and it's something from your teen years and it's kind of nicely wrapped up with a little bow or you know, there's things that you can talk to, the lessons learned, then we should be sharing.
If we don't know the lessons yet and we're in the thick of it. It's not really helpful for us to be sharing the message. It's probably something that you need to speak to a loved one, a trusted adult, or you know, your, your psychologist about, so that's where we kind of draw the line. If we not out of it and we can't reflect on the lessons to take from that, it's not appropriate to be sharing.
Mia
I bloody love that. Because otherwise then it's just trauma dumping Yes. Without any kind of resolution Exactly. Or outcome. Yeah. That's really, really, yeah. Great. Well. I think that this is such a great lesson [00:22:00] in how a brand can use emotional storytelling with really great brand clarity. Like your brand is super clear to have really impressive commercial traction, so you've now reached 25,000 plus students, which is nothing short of incredible.
What would you say has helped to scale that impact from the first couple of schools of pounding the pavement and trying to get a, a look in to now, you know, servicing that kind of number of students?
Kritz
Yeah, so definitely we, we have come a long way and we gained incredible growth, uh, after COVID, which obviously there's always been the need for wellbeing programs, but I think a lot of the issues were magnified, so we were kind of already prepared with our program.
Like I said, us Bianca and I, having speaking opportunities and spreading the word about the big sister experience, we would take any opportunity to speak about the program, but I also think [00:23:00] the program is, has been born from Bianca and I and we live what we teach, and I think that sometimes when you start a passion driven organization, you can really lose that passion behind the business. But you know, if it's something that we are living and we are raising our children to become, and we are always aware of our passion's, always there and right back to us deciding not to become a charity and wanting to make those decisions. I think that all of the decisions we've made along the way, whether it be changing content or changing the color of our footies from pink to peach, we've been there through every kind of decision to ensure that the authenticity of the business is still there.
So I think that us kind of having our finger on the pulse throughout it all, and also being really strongly part of the recruitment process to make sure that the people that are coming on board are aligned. And our culture is one of our most [00:24:00] vital and important things because if our staff are happy and we look after our staff, the program's gonna be amazing.
So I think being a part of it and making sure that the growth feels authentic and at our speed. Because working with a department we're like, well, we are not growing to this capacity where we lose the authenticity or we lose the quality. So just really growing and being mindful and intentional of where are we going next year?
Where do we wanna take it? How does this feel for us? Um, has been a really important factor for us to grow.
Mia
That's very clever because a lot of startup failure is due to premature scaling. You know, they, there, there's momentum and they don't wanna lose it. And so they say yes to everything, but then they burst at the seams because they don't have the systems. They don't have the team. They don't have, yeah. The structure to support this really aggressive growth. So I think that that's great. Mm. So what is next for you? Are you thinking about expanding to a digital [00:25:00] space or to going beyond Victoria? And what kind of marketing do you think that that will require?
Kritz
So being a female founded business, Bianca and I are still kind of starting out, not starting growing our own families and, and that was something that we both had to really sit down and say. Do we wanna take over the world in these next five years? Or do we wanna kind of just sustain our business and have our babies and then be able to come back to a business that allows us the lifestyle to, to support that. So I think we, we always tag team in and out. One of us is always on maternity leave. Uh, but I think we definitely have plans to, we love our team size at the moment. We feel like we know all of our team members individually. We can support enough schools from our capacity. But of course working a across Australia is something that we always love to do. We do work in New South Wales a little bit, and sometimes up in Queensland. I mean this, we always love to travel, so, and we do wanna also start an online, we're kind of building up our online content [00:26:00] in terms of what we can provide for students after we leave. So in terms of marketing, there's always marketing to be done.
I think our social media is always the first port of call and it's really interesting sometimes when I speak to a school and they're like, we love your stories or your behind the scenes when we get to meet the staff. And I think just being really personable in our social media. Plays such a big impact and we all know the impact of businesses and their socials, but I think starting there and keeping that authentic and then letting everybody know where we're going and what our plans are is something that we can really control as we go.
And do you still manage your social media or do you have assistance with that? So definitely Bianca and I are signed in. Um, sometimes we'll hop on stories, special guest appearance, uh, but we do have some girls in the team that actually run that. They're younger than us, they're more across it and the vocab and things like that.
So, uh, yeah, they run our social media for us.
Mia
I'm an email marketer. I'm a lowkey obsessed with email, so I'd love to know and don't break my heart. Crits.
Kritz
Yeah. [00:27:00] Do you do email marketing? How does it go for you? Yes, so we are a, a monthly newsletter is on the to-do list. I wouldn't say I hit every month, but we definitely do edms in terms of. Start of each term, um, letting schools know, for example, this term, there was one sent out getting prepared for term one. So it's definitely something that we do, but we could be doing it a lot better.
Mia
Well, I'm, I'm on speed dial if you need me. I would love, love, love to assist just 'cause I know what the return on investment on email marketing is across all industries.
Yeah. So let's wrap things up because I'm very conscious of your time and I appreciate how generous you've been with your, uh, lessons today. What would you say is one marketing principle that you and Bian can now live by?
Kritz
I definitely feel like we use our gut a lot for marketing, and I know that this sounds strange, but if it's ever, for example, like a collab or a brand partnership, I feel like it really needs to feel aligned. [00:28:00] And there have been opportunities in the past that have just felt tricky from the start, whether it be getting in touch or. What are we gonna do? And it's, it's felt tricky. And then other times where I'm like, yes. Like we have the best meeting and it aligns and then it does so well. And I think for us, like I said, we, we listen to our gut a lot and I think with marketing, especially partnerships, collaborations, that's a really big one that can impact your business, either good or you know, negatively.
So I think listening to our gut when something feels aligned is our. Our go-to.
Mia
I think that's great, and a lot of people are surprised to know that. As a strategist, I'm also a very intuitive marketer and I listen to my gut all the time, and that's because my gut is drawing on 22 years of marketing experience. So that's great. Can you share what you think has been the most exciting, fun collaboration that you've done for the big sister experience?
Kritz
So we obviously work in the female identifying space and just connecting with some of the male programs in the industry [00:29:00] is super cool because then if they share something about what we've done, it's almost like we're exposed to a target market that already values programs like ours, but they're like, oh, there's a girls program.
I think definitely collaborating with other people in the space, whether it be working with the males or just wellbeing in general, uh, and bringing out content together with them or just resharing things that they've shared or vice versa. It's such a nice way to kind of capture your target market. In a really organic way.
Mia
I think you guys should reach out to Pinterest, Australia. Oh, okay. Yeah, because I don't know if you know this, but Pinterest is the kindest place on the internet. You are not allowed to have Yeah. Anorexia content, gambling, uh, any kind of dieting, any kind of political speech. It's all banned on the platform and they have quite a young.
Demographic of people who use Pinterest. Yeah. And I reckon that they could be a really fun collaboration partner for you. [00:30:00]
Kritz
Okay, thank you.
Mia
Just spit balling. It's just how my brain works. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Thank you. Alright, so what's one piece of advice that you would give to someone considering creating a purpose led or impact led business?
Kritz
I think definitely making sure that your offerings, your. Program is aligned with yourself because we all know starting a business is. Hard. Yeah. And I think just making sure that you stick true to that because sometimes we can kind of tweak or conform or, or change things to maybe grow or expand into areas that maybe, you know, might bring in more revenue, but don't feel authentic to the reason why you started the business.
And I think that when we start to do that, we just lose the authenticity straight away. And especially if you're starting something. For purpose or for impact, you need to always be coming back to that. And you know, everything before Bianca and I kind of tick it off or say, yes, let's do that. It's like, does this [00:31:00] attach to our mission and what we want the world to look like in 20 years? And if it's yes, then go for it. And if it's no, there's been some really hard times where there's been, you know, maybe a big kind of revenue stream or an opportunity and we've said no to. It felt really kind of sticky at the time. But in the. In the future, we're like, oh, you know, then another opportunity fell into our laps or aligned and we made space for that energetically. So I think just always sticking to and coming back to the reason why that's so refreshing, I have to say. So good. And I love what you said about this idea of. Saying no to something gives you the time and the space and the availability to say yes to something that's better aligned.
Mia
Yeah. Well this has been an absolute treat for me, and I definitely think the listener's gonna get a lot out of this, especially if they've ever wondered how to turn lived experience into a sustainable brand that schools love.[00:32:00] I really feel that the big sister experience is proof that it can be done with strategy and not just spin. Thank you.
Kritz
Thank you so much.
Mia
Oh, we did good time. Thank you so much for joining me today, Chris. It was awesome. Awesome.
Outro
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