Mia Fileman
Are you tired of empty promises and stolen ideas? Me too. Got. Marketing is a podcast for marketers and small brands who want real talk and clever strategies without the bs. Running an online business is hard, but everything gets easier when your marketing starts performing. I am Mia FileMan, your straight shooting campaign loving friend here to talk marketing, running a business, pop culture, and everything in between.
Let's dive in.
Hello, friend. You have heard me speak on this podcast about how much of a labor of love podcasting is. It has been one of the hardest time consuming most. Draining, but also rewarding parts of running My small [00:01:00] business. And I wanna get into this a little bit today because a lot of people barrel in to starting a podcast with their eyes firmly shut.
And I think you need to know what you're getting yourself into before you embark on this, because what people think. Running a podcast is gonna be like, is quite different from the reality. So to have this chat, I have invited a new friend of mine to the show. Her name is Laura McCray and she is a podcast partner for established business owners who are looking to grow their audience, build authority, and finally get their podcast working for their business.
Welcome to Gut Marketing, Laura.
Laura McRae
Hi Mia. Thanks for having me.
Mia
It's so good to see you. We had the pleasure of meeting in person. At a Ripple Festival Leadup event in Fremantle. After visiting Fremantle, I decided that this is where I wanna live. Not going to happen, but very jealous that you get to live there.
Laura
Well, I'm quite a long way away from there. I'm about an hour drive away, but still closer than [00:02:00] you are.
Mia
Much, much closer. Oh, I didn't realize. Thank you so much for making the effort to come out to Freo for us.
Laura
Oh, it was worth it. I loved it because I'll be honest with you, I didn't know what the event was gonna be like and who was gonna be.
I didn't even know what Ripple Festival was, and I turned up and I fell in love with everyone there and I've bought a ticket and I'm coming. So I'm really excited and pleased I went. So thank you very much.
Mia
Well, thank you for validating that this strategy is actually working, because you know, sometimes we do these things with our marketing.
We're like, is this the right call? Are these lead up events gonna actually convert in ticket sales? And you just have confirmed that they do. So thank you. I would love to know how you got into being a podcast producer, manager, coach, consultant.
Laura
Well, I first started my business as a virtual assistant and I had a client who wanted to launch a podcast and I wasn't sure how to do it.
She didn't know if to start a new one or carry on with the one she had already. So I did a course in podcast [00:03:00] management and I loved it, and I ditched all my other services and just focused on that. And so I just love podcasting and I love the fact that myself as an introvert as well, anyone can do podcasting and it's just open to everyone.
And my background is in marketing, so I just love that you can use it to repurpose and build your business and brand with your podcast. So that's where I started and that's why I love it.
Mia
Yeah, that's awesome. I'm sure that the listener is thinking. I'm not allowed extroverted natural speaker. I don't think podcasting would work for me.
And you seem to have a counter view to that.
Luara
Yeah, definitely. It's the best way to stop because you can stumble, you can make mistakes, and then you can just edit it out. And that's the great thing about it, because I am not a confident speaker. And I, I do what I actually don't recommend clients do, and I script my podcast because I'm a nervous speaker and I know it's not the best thing to do, but if it's the only way you [00:04:00] can do it to get your voice out there, then do it.
So bullet points are the best, but if you need to script, if you are nervous to speak, then just do it. And that's the great thing about podcasting because no one's gonna see that you're reading from a script. So yeah, just go for it.
Mia
Yeah, that's great advice. All right, so big existential question for you here, Laura.
How do you make a podcast a success from your perspective?
Laura
Well, the first thing you need to do is work out why you want a podcast in the first place. 'cause people just launch 'em thinking, oh, I just wanna check with my mates. 'cause we, we get drunk and say funny things. But at the end of the day, no offense, but that's often just you and your mate think you're funny if you're doing it for your business.
Then think about who your ideal listener is. Who your client is. Yeah. And the purpose of the podcast, so a lot of it for business owners is to build brand authority and to get your voice out there, those sort of things. And in turn, bring in clients. And so you have really, really have to make sure that you know who your ideal listener is and that you're talking about subjects that they'd be [00:05:00] interested in.
And then you build that trust and then they'll end up. From you. So it's just doing that background work. That's what a lot of people don't do. They just do it for fun and don't realize how much work goes into it, otherwise it's not gonna be worth your time and money.
Mia
Yeah. I think the other thing also is that there are so many podcasts and a lot of aspiring podcasters don't look at the number of podcasts serving a similar niche to theirs.
There's no clear point of difference. It's just another marketing podcast in a sea of marketing podcasts or another investing podcast in a mountain of money investing podcasts. So do you have any practical ways that people can go away and come up with a. Unique niche for their podcast.
Laura
Yeah, definitely. Because when you've got a business, say like yourself or anyone who's like a coach or a consultant or a strategist, something like that, you've all got your own individual methods. Everybody's different in the way [00:06:00] that they do things, and that's where you stand out. Your talk about your method and how you do things.
And I find a lot of people as well, they get nervous to start a podcast 'cause they think, oh, I'm never gonna be as big as Amy Porterfield or something like that. Why would someone listen to me over her? But the thing is, she talks to the masses. You're never actually gonna speak to her one-on-one and know her personally.
Whereas when you've got the smaller business owner who has a podcast, you'll end up actually getting to know that person. They'll get to know you, and it's more one-on-one. So it's, you shouldn't really compare yourself with the big people because. They're not the same as you. 100%. So where do you think that people go wrong with their podcast apart from.
Not having a solid reason to start it, that's commercially focused. I think a lot of people get stuck with video podcasts because video is the new thing. Everyone wants to be on YouTube and everything now, and this is where they get stuck and it stops them from starting. Because I've had clients come to me and they've [00:07:00] recorded the video and they don't like it because they look stiff and they're embarrassed.
And so we've ended up going back to audio where they feel more comfortable and they've ended up spending this money on video equipment and wasted this time recording. These episodes that they didn't like, and what I say is, especially if you're an introvert and you are not that brilliant on camera, not your fault, but you're just not practiced in it because it is a skill to be good on camera, then just do the audio first and then in time do video if that's where you wanna go.
But don't let the video hold you back from starting your podcast. That's a really common thing at the moment. I find.
Mia
That is such good advice. I can't imagine what it would've been like trying to teach myself podcasting and also recording the video at the same time. So the podcast ran for four seasons before I introduced a video.
We don't actually release the entire video anywhere. We just take snippets from Riverside. There is a a lot of other ways that you can do this in a way that feels really [00:08:00] comfortable for you, right? Yeah, definitely. And it depends on your audience too. So for me, I don't ever watch video podcasts. My husband's a different, he watches skateboarding videos, so a lot of it is. Visual. So it's podcasts with snippets of skateboarding in it. So it's very visual. But for me, even if I listen to DI of A CEO, I listen to the audio. I don't watch his video Again, it's going back right to the beginning. If your audience aren't visually watching the the podcast, what's the point in doing the video anyway?
You're wasting your time and money. Because podcasting is one thing to learn, but learning the SEO and everything of YouTube, that's its own search engine. You are going down another rabbit hole of things you've gotta learn. So stick with the basics first and then go to video podcasting.
Mia
I think that that is really, really solid advice.
I'm the same. I don't actually watch podcasts and uh, I mean that's two of us. I'm sure that there's many more people who prefer just the audio version of a podcast while they're out walking or. They're folding the laundry or tidying the house, whatever it is, [00:09:00] cooking, whatever they're doing. It doesn't have to be a precursor.
You don't have to have video in order to have a successful podcast. So I've found podcasting challenging, but also rewarding. We now release a weekly episode. It started as monthly and there is a lot to it. There's the actual booking of the guests, which I do personally. There's preparing the discussion guides there is recording the podcast, paying someone to edit the podcast show notes.
Then the actual distribution. And then the marketing, which is massive. Right? So why in your view, do you think it's worth sticking through these hard bits?
Laura
I feel like it's worth it because at the end of the day, you are getting so much content out of the podcast. And I know how difficult it is 'cause I've got a podcast myself and I've got it on hold because I personally am struggling to do everything because I do everything myself and it is hard.
I'm currently rebranding my podcast, so [00:10:00] I'm going down a different avenue. Anyway, the clients I've worked with had so have had some really great wins. Like one of them is now close friends with someone who's works with Tony Robbins. She had her on a show, somebody else has had a publisher come to her and asked her to write a book.
So she's written a book 'cause she got found through a podcast. She gets asked to speak at events. Another client the other day said, oh, I was walking down the beach and someone said, oh, I'm listening to you at the moment. I listen to you to get me in a good mood. So it's all those things and this client now is selling out her events.
So it's really worth it if you stick with it. It's a long game thing. You won't get there straight away, but within a, I'd say at least two, three years, you start seeing the benefits of podcasting. So don't give up straight away.
Mia
Yeah. I think that that is such good advice around this idea that it's a long game strategy.
Like if you are the sort of person that wants an ROI. Within 3, 6, 9 months, then I don't think it's the right strategy for you. Yeah, definitely. It's a long game thing. Yeah. What I really struggle with, and I'd [00:11:00] love your perspective on Laura, is how do we measure success? How do we know that we are doing well with our podcasting?
What are the metrics that we should be looking at?
Laura
Um, that's the thing. A lot of people look at downloads, but it's not all about downloads. So again, a client, she had someone famous on her show and she got really great downloads, but then when I looked. At the stats and check the consumption rate, which is the average length of someone listening to an episode.
It was only like 25% or something. So they listened to the beginning and then they just dropped off. And this is because people must have seen that this famous person was on there. She wasn't talking about a subject that her listeners were interested in, so they cut off. So although downloads look good, they're not always the best thing to look at.
So I always recommend you look at your consumption rate and unfortunately you can't find that on your hosting platform. You have to go and Spotify and Apple to find these. So that's a good step to look at. So I really [00:12:00] recommend that. And also. It's not just that the stats, it's also what your goals are again, so are the people stopping you in the street saying, oh, I really love that episode, or getting in your dms and telling you, and things like that.
So it all depends on what your goals are as to whether it's successful or not. What do you personally wanna get out of your podcast? Everybody's different and talking about stats as well, if we're going back to that, you can also check in your stats what countries people are listening to you. So I've got a client here who's based in Perth and she does in-person events.
Since she's launched her podcast, 50% of her listeners are in the USA. So now she gets clients and does Zoom calls with them. So I'd say that's a good sign of success. From looking at your stats, she realized that you are now international, not just based in Perth.
Mia
Yeah, that is fascinating. So good. What are some of your favorite podcasts and why?
Laura
So being like in podcasts, I listen to podcasts about podcasts, so my ones are, there's School of Podcasting by Dave Jackson, [00:13:00] another one called Grow the Show, and another one, pod News Daily. But for business ones, obviously I listen to yours and fees, podcasts regular. And for personal ones, like when me and my husband, 'cause we have completely different tastes in podcasts. So like I say, he listens to skateboarding ones. But when we go camping, we'll download some episodes to listen. And there's one that we've got at the moment called My dad Wrote a Porn. No, which is quite funny. The dad wrote a porn notebook and it's really, really, really bad. The son and his friends are reading out a chapter each episode, and it's just quite funny.
Mia
Sensational, so good. I've gotta check that out.
Ripple Ad
You already know. Ripple Festival isn't a typical business event, but what you might not realize is how it feels to be there Two days of big ideas, fresh perspective. And conversations that stick with you long after the two days. The return on investment is clarity, momentum, and connections that drive meaningful [00:14:00] results in your business.
Ripple is for forward-leaning, future thinking, small business owners who want profit and purpose. We've carefully curated everything. Speaker, every panel, every performance. So you leave inspired and equipped. Come and join us at Ripple Festival on the 12th and 13th of November. We'd love to see you there and you can grab your ticket at Ripple Festival au.
Mia
So since you graciously mentioned that you listen to got Marketing, thank you, what do you think I could do to improve the show? You're allowed. To be completely honest.
Laura
I actually can't think of anything you would improve because you keep 'em short. They're relevant and I listen to them all. I've never skipped one episode.
I feel bad saying this. The only bit, I don't really understand the bits where you pop in and say, brainstorm or something like that, and the music comes on. I don't really get that bit. That's the only bit.
Mia
Do you mean the segments? [00:15:00] Where we say like, source of truth and strong opinions are sexy.
Laura
Yes.
Mia
Mm-hmm.
Laura
Yeah. I think it's fine just to keep going. Okay. Yeah. But that's, that's, that's just my opinion. 'cause that's sometimes I feel like it is, oh, where did that come from? And then you just carry on.
Mia
Alright, that's great feedback. Yeah. I think what we might need to do is remind people why we have segments and that we do have segments.
So that it doesn't just feel out of place, but I love it. Yes, I love it. Great. Thank, I really appreciate it. I really appreciate it. That's really great. Alright, so take me and the listener a little bit behind the scenes of. Your reality as a podcast specialist, what do you do and what do you struggle with?
Laura
Yeah. The main role is to edit podcasts. That's the part that takes the longest, probably the bits I struggle with with editing is solo episodes are fine, but sometimes when you are editing interviews and say they're not recorded on two audio tracks, and there's a lot of shifting around and. The solo episodes are fine.
The [00:16:00] interviews take a bit longer. I don't feel like I do struggle because I love it so much. I guess the thing I struggle with most is when people don't see the potential of how much they can do with their podcast. When I get on strategy calls with clients, I'm like, you could do this, this, this, this. And I feel like I get so excited about everything they do, but obviously there's only so much time in their lives to do it, and I just, just wanna do it all for them.
And that's what I struggle with when people don't see the potential of. How it can go. Yeah, I, I see this all the time as a trap that small business owners fall into that. We are constantly creating content, but we're not repurposing resharing, getting better mileage out of it, and also just a lack of imagination around, well, what could you do?
With this 40 minute episode that you now have that you could repurpose so that you don't have to be constantly on that content creation hamster wheel. Yeah, that's it. Because when people think about repurposing podcast episodes, a lot of people just think grabbing the audio or grabbing the visual, and then just promoting it on social [00:17:00] media.
But there's so much more you can do with that. You can grab the transcript out, you can make. Multiple social media posts, not just about your podcast, but in general, the content. The content is there. It's not just promoting your podcast and then you can write newsletters and blog posts. You can write so many blog posts out of one transcript.
It's just amazing the content you can get out of it, and I think it's really sad when people don't use it.
Mia
Yeah, I really love that strategy of using a blog to support your podcast. It's actually really good from a SEO perspective. So I definitely feel like this is a tactic that people are sleeping on.
Laura
Yeah, definitely. Because you can not only the SEO on the players, but also the SEO on your own website. 'cause at the end of the day, well obviously, depending on what your goals are, you want people to listen to your podcast, but you want 'em to bring 'em. To your website so that you can sell your services to them.
That's more likely where they, you are gonna sell to them. And so by having your podcast on your website. So I recommend anyone [00:18:00] who's got a business and got a podcast, don't just leave it on the podcast players. Put it on your own website. Create blogs, which is where your show notes will go, and this is where the SEO comes in and you can bring people to your website and sell to them.
Mia
Yeah. I actually work with a marketing analytics specialist, Brooke Huckabee, who I'm sure you know too. She's a fellow western Australian, and I was curious to see how many visitors to my website come through the podcast page, and it was quite a few more than I expected. And so since that realization, I've actually started to put the call to actions and Forms on the podcast landing page to get them to go and explore my offers and my services, because it seems to be where they're, they're, they're finding me, which is amazing, right?
Laura
Yeah, definitely. So in your episode description, which is in your hosting platform of your podcast, always put links to your website because that's where you want [00:19:00] to lead people to go.
Mia
Yeah. It's so important. Absolutely. So you mentioned before that it's not easy to edit a podcast when there's two voices in a single track. What are some of your favorite tools, both software and hardware for recording really good quality. Podcasts.
Laura
Oh, it's really simple, actually, and cheaper than you think.
So with a microphone, you don't need to spend more than, well, you could probably get a decent ish one for a hundred dollars. Mine is $200 a Blue Yeti mic, which is a very popular one, but as long as you're saving on two audio tracks when you record, that's. It's simple to edit, but when it's on one audio track and people are talking at the same time, that's when it gets tricky.
But the software I use to edit podcasts, I just use a free one called Audacity. So it's not expensive, it's free. So anyone can use it and I highly recommend it if you're on a type budget. But when I edit, just use Audacity.
Mia
And what about for recording? We're using Riverside. Do you have any thoughts?
Laura
Yeah, [00:20:00] Riverside is great, but I've found when I've used Riverside before, if some of the people that come on as guests aren't that.
Tech savvy and they're used to Zoom. I've found that they've had trouble getting in, but it was fine today when we used it, but I know it, it is not the best quality, but Zoom, zoom works fine. If you've got a Zoom subscription already and you know how to use it, then just use Zoom. But make sure that you've got the settings to be on saving in two separate audio tracks.
But yes, Riverside is better, but. If you don't wanna spend more money and you've got Zoom already. Use Zoom.
Mia
Yeah. Awesome. That's really a great tip for cash strapped small business owners. Can you speak at all to. Getting, monetizing your podcast and potentially getting a sponsor or a partner. Uh, is that your sort of zone of genius, Laura?
Laura
It's not really my zone of genius. I've only helped one client with this, 'cause I've only had the business for two and a half years, and these are clients I've launched for, so they're. They're only getting to the stage now where they're really [00:21:00] seeing the benefits of their podcast. So my recommendation to anyone starting a podcast is the way to monetize is just to promote your own services, to strategize your episodes around what events are coming up, what promotions you've got, and then make sure that your.
Podcast episodes are tailored around those events and services or whatever you're doing so that you can promote the services without sounding too salesy. That's my first recommendation for anyone starting a podcast. And then with sponsorships here, I guess if you've got a good relationship with somebody already who you think.
Would be a good partner then they're the first ones to go to if you know them personally already. But I must admit this isn't my main bag. I've, like I said, I've helped one client and, um, I don't wanna, I'm nervous to, um,
Mia
overreach. Yeah, I, I appreciate that. There's a lot of people that come on the show that think they know everything, Laura, so it's refreshing to have someone that is happy to stay in their lane. Where do you think podcasting is headed? I've seen recently [00:22:00] that the number of listeners. Podcasts continues to increase, but the number of active podcasts is actually decreasing, and we now are seeing that active podcasts, so they've released an episode in the last three months, is actually down since 2023.
And that's because people underestimate how much work they take. So this to me seems like a really interesting opportunity as the pool is thinning. Of active podcasts, but the listenership is up. What are you seeing from your perspective, like how it's gonna change?
Laura
I do feel like more people are gonna go into the video podcasting area.
That's where it's headed. And also ai. 'cause there's, unfortunately, I hate the fact that people are gonna. Start getting these fake bots to record their episodes, but I feel like that's an area it's gonna go in. 'cause I listened to an episode the other day, that was one and it was act, I've gotta admit it was actually quite good.
So the tools are getting better and better [00:23:00] for these things, which is quite scary. Yeah, like you say, so many people finish. I think the average now is 10 episodes and then they give up. So again, this is where I encourage people to just start a podcast. 'cause although you see that, you might think it's saturated and there's so many podcasts out there, the majority of them aren't active. So just go out there, start your podcast and just keep going with it.
Mia
Yeah, that is really, really solid advice. To wrap us up, you have some exciting news that I saw that you are taking over a massive Australian podcast community Facebook group.
Laura
Yes. Yes. It was kindly handed over to me, a friend of mine who's also a podcast manager, Lindel, she had the group and.
She's, um, changing her business and where she wants to, which direction she wants to go in, and she trusted me to take over the group. So I'm really grateful. It's called Australian Podcast Collaborative, so I can give you the link to that if you like, but I'd love to see people in there. [00:24:00] It's a great place to find guests or be a guest on a show, share your episodes, those sort of things.
It's just a nice group of people. Who wanna start a podcast or we've got a podcast and we are in there together helping each other out.
Mia
That is so good. I'm actually in that group. I haven't posted in there in years, so I will find it and uh, try to be a little bit more active there. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that the listener would be interested to know about you and your work?
Laura
Just if you wanna chat, come and find me on Instagram or Facebook. I'd love to connect with you. I love helping people and if they've got any questions, obviously there's the Facebook group too, because I just, I'm always there to encourage people to start podcasts and wanna help people grow their podcasts around their business.
'cause it's. It's just sad that there's so many of those big ones out there, and no one people are thinking that they're not listening to us, small business owners, but they are, and there's space for everybody. So come in, ask me questions, and I'll help you wherever I can.
Mia
Amazing. That is great. I feel like I'm the Debbie Downer [00:25:00] because, you know, I, I run a business and creating the podcast is hard, but I just love how passionate and positive you are about podcasting, and I think that.
Sometimes people need to hear the cold, hard reality of it, but they also need to hear what's possible and your enthusiasm for it and all the potential that comes with it. So I appreciate both perspectives today. It's hard, but it's worth it. Yeah. I think that's a perfect way to wrap up today. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us, Laura, and I'm very, very excited to see you at Ripple Festival.
Laura
Me too. Thanks for having me.
Outro
I've started a Substack as the ideal companion to the podcast. It's packed with extra insights, visuals, and nuggets that didn't make it into the episodes. Plus, you can revisit past editions anytime If you want more or just prefer to read, you'll love it. Plus it's a place for us to connect. Want the backstage pass to Got Marketing? [00:26:00] Subscribe [email protected]. Thank you. You listened right up until the end, so why not hit that subscribe button? And keep the good marketing rolling. Podcast reviews are like warm hugs and they're also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia FileMan on Instagram or LinkedIn, and feel free to send me a message.
I'm super friendly.
[00:27:00] [00:28:00] [00:29:00] [00:30:00] [00:31:00] [00:32:00] [00:33:00] [00:34:00] [00:35:00] [00:36:00] [00:37:00] [00:38:00] [00:39:00] [00:40:00] [00:41:00] [00:42:00] [00:43:00] [00:44:00] [00:45:00] [00:46:00] [00:47:00] [00:48:00] [00:49:00] [00:50:00] [00:51:00] [00:52:00] [00:53:00]
