[00:00:00] Mia Fileman
Are you tired of empty promises and stolen ideas? Me too. Got. Marketing is a podcast for marketers and small brands who want real talk and clever strategies without the bs. Running an online business is hard, but everything gets easier when your marketing starts performing. I am Mia FileMan, your straight shooting campaign loving friend here to talk marketing, running a business, pop culture, and everything in between.
Let's dive in.
Hello friend, and welcome to the Most Overdue Guest podcast episode. Welcome to the show, Stef Hanson.
Stef Hanson
Ooh, I'm very honored to, uh, to be sitting in this seat. W we talk once a week.
Mia
Why did we only. Like decide to record it today? I don't get it.
Stef
Is it maybe, because a lot of what we talk about. [00:01:00] Is potentially nonsense, but it's great nonsense that we were nervous to let other people into our brain space.
Mia
I think so also, every time I talk to you, and I've said this to you before, it kind of feels like a therapy session for me. You have such a unique way of looking into people. Souls and seeing them before they even see themselves, like the first time we met you, bloody made me cry. Sorry about that. What's about that?
Stef
I take that as one of the biggest compliments you could give me. Honestly. Not that I try to make people cry, but I just. Like, I'm genuinely so curious about people things, just everything. And I never intentionally tried to peer into your soul, but I just, I guess I'm just not, I'm not about the surface level stuff, so I genuinely wanna find some cool shit about people.
Mia
Yeah, it really reminds me of like Humans of New York. You know how that was, that blew up so quickly because. He [00:02:00] just had this unparalleled ability to just get complete strangers, to just tell him everything that they potentially haven't even told themselves or their family members. And then I met you and I was like, she's humans of Melbourne.
Stef
Once again, like you, you are throwing the compliments my way and I will take every single one of them. I just, I've always thought this, but I didn't realize it was a skill of mine until like people like yourself pointed it out. I just, I feel like everybody has a story. They just have not been asked the right questions from the right person yet.
And it's not that I go into conversations thinking that there's gonna be this massive story, but I don't know, like I also get a bit of a thrill out of asking a question that someone hasn't been asked before, or letting them, making them think about something about themselves that they haven't necessarily spent a few moments doing.
It's, um, yeah, I get quite a buzz out of it,
Mia
I think for you if, um, and you can tell me if I'm completely off base. [00:03:00] Everyone walks around with a mask, right? And you are like, okay, I've met this new person. How do we get them to drop the mask really quickly so we can get to the good stuff so that I can really figure out whether we're talking to someone.
You know, a good person that like, you know, it's pure in their heart or whether we're talking to someone who will never drop the mask and it's actually underneath this. And so like for you, I, that's the impression that I got was like, you are almost so aware that everyone is walking around kind of shielding their true selves and you're like, okay, let's.
Let's cut with the small talk. How do we get to the good stuff so that we can figure out whether we're gonna get along?
Stef
Yeah, I, yeah, I think so. Like being quite the competitive person that I am, I do see that as a challenge every now and then. Yeah. Um, I thoroughly enjoy it. Like I said, I just didn't realize it was something that I used in a.
Working capacity. It's just 'cause It's just what I do. Like I don't do that just because someone's on the other side of camera. It's just [00:04:00] how I do what I, what I do. Yeah.
Mia
It is absolutely a huge skill, especially as a creative director, storyteller, videographer, photographer, because it's not just about capturing what's people can see.
It's like, all right, I know this thing about Mia. This is the kind of traits that I also need to try to capture in a photo, because otherwise it just looks like any other headshot, boring headshot. How can we bring in some of the traits that you really like about me and Mia and you know, everyone else that you are shooting and bring that to the photo?
Stef
Yeah, absolutely. Got headshot bore the absolute crap outta me. So people, I just. I don't want to do them, but I do thoroughly enjoy finding new and different ways of showcasing people and their personality and that I find exciting and far more valuable to people who are trying to get their, their brand out there, or their business or, or what have you.
Like who wants to see another [00:05:00] boring headshot with a white background.
Mia
Totally. So what's interesting is when I first met you, you were doing work that just to me completely did not fit. You as I know you now, like you were doing really boring head shots. You were filming rah rah conferences that were like borderline cults.
You were doing like the most run of the mill talking head video explainers. How on earth did someone like you? Who is so creative, like such a visionary, end up doing work like that.
Stef
It honestly, I think I kind of fell into that kind of work. So I come from a background where I used to host a multimedia platform for women in triathlon.
I'm the sporty guy, the jock, the sporty spice, whatever your label you wanna give me, I'll take, I'm fine with that. But I spent probably 12, 15 years traveling the globe interviewing athletes, um, covering [00:06:00] events. And along the way I had to teach myself how to take photos and videos. And when I shut that down three years ago, I didn't realize that those skills that I had built over that many years were valuable to anyone else.
I knew that I needed them for what I was, you know, putting out there. I didn't, I just didn't know that anyone else needed someone who had that skillset. And then people just started popping up, going, asking me to do stuff and I, I was just like, yeah, I can do that. Everything just kept growing and people would ask me to do something, you know, in the corporate world, I'm like, I don't, I don't work in the corporate world.
I turn up and everyone's in suits and dresses and stuff, and I'm turning up in sneakers and a baseball cap completely out of my depth. But they enjoyed that. I was. Different that I saw things differently and I would just follow my gut and, and say yes to all those kinds of things, and that, that kept growing.
And then one day I met Mia and [00:07:00] I, I guess I'm very comfortable following my gut and swinging for the fences and going crazy. Also know that there are a lot of people who have said to me, you can't do that. You shouldn't do that. Which, you know, they're there, but it hasn't necessarily stopped me. But I didn't, I hadn't had someone such as yourself sort of reach into my skillset and my value and my worth than go, no, no, no.
You, you are so much more than just the tools that you. Use, and no one had ever really said that to me. And that moment like completely changed my career, my life, my family life. And I've said this to you and I'll say it again on this podcast, me as one of the first people I called when we bought our first house, because she had, she, like I'm talking about, you're not in the room at the moment. But you had given me sort of permission to just really go big and trust that instinct and, and not let the, any barriers sort of stop me from [00:08:00] embracing the, the big ideas. Whereas I guess in the past, while I always. Did swing for the fences. It was always with sort of parameters around it. And now I just view everything like, tell me I can't do it. Let me add it, you know?
Mia
Oh, thank you, Steph. I've worked with creative directors for 20 years, so I know one when I see one. Right. And I, I know what really good creative talent works with. Having worked with some of the world's biggest brands, I've been able to be on set with some absolute creative masters.
And when I met you, I'm like, this woman. Is completely in the wrong game. Like this makes no sense to me and I'm so glad that our paths crossed. 'cause now we've worked together so many times. So where are you now? Are you now turning away the boring headshots? Uh, is that, is that done? Are you more deliberate with what you say yes to?
Stef
I'm definitely trying to be more deliberate. I also have a, a problem of being a bit of a [00:09:00] people pleaser and not being able to say no. So I'm still on that journey, but I definitely am trying to lean much more into the creative side of things around campaigns and coming up with concepts. That's the other thing I've learned from you and a few others, but mostly you, is that. A lot of my value lies in, in the creativity, not just the delivering and pressing record or what have you. It's coming up with the ideas. But again, 'cause all of my ideas in the past have been for me. So I've never seen them as a value to anyone else because I just had to do it for myself. But now I'm, you know, realizing that that's where the magic is, is where with the ideation and, and the.
Big ideas. So, and that's what I truly love doing. I think my big goal will be come up with the creative ideas and direct and then get someone else on the tools, pressing the record. And I'm just, yeah, doing more of the people and the creative stuff. 'cause that's where I, that's what I love doing.
Mia
That's absolutely where you need to be.
The only way to access that kind of creativity. By paying a big [00:10:00] agency and paying them, you know, 20, $30,000 just for the concept. So the fact that small businesses can access. That kind of creative strategy is unparalleled. You know, your, your skills behind a camera are also pretty mad. Let's not dismiss those, but it's so much easier to find a videographer than it is to find someone that can concept the way that you can.
Stef
Thank you. I love that you're saying small business. 'cause that's where I want to, I don't wanna scale, I don't want to be an agency that doesn't interest me. And it just so happens that we, I'm working mostly with women. That doesn't mean I, I won't work with men, but it just sort of seems that I gravitate towards meeting awesome women who are doing really cool things and just need help sort of elevating that.
And I just, I wanna be a part of helping awesome women trying to make a difference in the world. That's like, that really lights my fire. The big agency stuff I really have zero interest in.
Mia
I think it would be soul destroying for you because they would water down your [00:11:00] ideas so much because you could, you have the skills to absolutely go and get big brand campaign work.
You could be working. For agencies or directly for brands, you know, like Maybelline and all, all of those, but they're not gonna let you have the creative freedom that you have now with your clients where they trust you to come up with something. They're gonna want it to be really brand safe. They're gonna wanna make the logo bigger.
And I feel like that's gonna. Burn you out. Something I mentioned in the unveiling of the Honest marketing method is this idea that Renee Frazier wrote about in in her EDM around burnout doesn't necessarily happen because we work too much. Burnout happens because the light is extinguished, and so if we can.
Still be playful in our business and enjoy it, then actually we are less likely to burn out even if we are working heaps.
Stef
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's um, I get burnt out by the mundane headshots or even the mundane, [00:12:00] just operating spreadsheets and sending proposals and stuff like that. That stuff burns me out.
So if I can just keep doing the creative stuff and rolling through that, that'd be great. And then I'm just gonna. Pass all that boring stuff onto other people. 100%. I've never met anyone who needs an admin assistant more than you. Look at our strengths. You know, I don't go into the kitchen and try and cook.
It's not my strength.
Mia
You made sausages.
Stef
So he is talking about my sizzle reel, which I got. I sort of launched a couple of weeks ago during my campaign that I was running my brand campaign. I just, again, I don't, I don't like doing the same thing as everyone else does. So I decided to cook some sausages, you know, to bring the sizzle to my sizzle reel.
But you'll notice in the outtakes that Brett, my husband, who's the chef, he put the sausages in. He wouldn't let me even do that. And he, you know, got them to the right amount of, um, cooked, cooked ness before we can start filming. So, yeah, [00:13:00] purely props for me. Wow. Yeah. We're gonna talk about the campaign in a minute, but before we get there, I just wanna go back to one thing and like now this is where it becomes like a mentoring session.
Sorry.
Mia
I suspect that there are now people that see your work. Through Marketing Circle campaigns and Megan Winter's campaign and Natalie Heim's campaign and Caitlyn Maha's campaigns that they will see Stef Hansen. They'll be like, cool, I wanna work with Stef Hansen. So they book you, but what they book you for is like, okay, let's just shoot, let's just shoot some video. And then they expect on the day that you are going to somehow pull some rabbits out of hats is, would that be right?
Stef
Um, yes. Sometimes yes. That definitely happens. Yes.
Mia
Okay. So, so what we need to do now, our next bit of work together is about making sure that we do that pre-production scripting concepting before, because that is just way too much pressure for you on the day.
'cause what they're really [00:14:00] asking for is the Steph Hanson magic. But what they've booked is just a day of shooting web videos.
Stef
Yes, absolutely. I'm just making notes as we speak, Mia. Alright, so after working on, you know, 11 billion campaigns for cycling brands and. Stylists and online programs and courses.
You finally launched your campaign, uh, this year. Tell me, tell me all about it.
Stef
Um, before we do that, can I just quickly, because you sort of mentioned cycling stylists, there's marketing data analysts, there's campaign marketing. So people often say, well, what's your niche? Right? And when I first started getting into this, I thought that I had to have like a niche service or type of client, but I think my niche sort of lands in the.
The type of client, not the type of service that they provide now. [00:15:00] So it's trying to work with those Yeah. Small business owners, but good humans trying to do good things. And I was just having this discussion the other day and still like other videographers out there saying that they, it needs to be specific like sport or what, and am I, I just, that would drive me insane.
I would not, one of the things I love the most about what I do. Is that I get to dip in and out of different industries and then bring my experience from other. So I've got a lot of experience in the sporting world, and then I'm bringing that into working with a stylist like it's you just, I get to view the world differently to the next person and it's.
I think, anyway, just a sidebar.
Mia
I love that we have a term for that in marketing Circle, Stef, and what, what do we call that Pop quiz?
Stef
You know, I haven't done the homework. I'm also the student who, who listens and it, it's in his subconsciously, but I don't always know all the correct terminology. Or use the right platforms, and I'm just riffing now so I don't get in trouble.[00:16:00]
Mia
Okay. It's called psychographic segmentation. It was right there. It was on the tip of your tongue. So instead of niching by industry or by demographics. We're choosing who we work with based on the psychographics, so their behaviors, their personality, their beliefs, and in your case it's their risk profile, how adventurous they are, how willing they are to steer away from the boring, same, same content and campaigns and, and take these creative.
That Exactly. Yes. Very well said. Couldn't have said it better. Literally. Could not have said it better. Alright, so tell us about your campaign. Does it have a name? I name all my campaign. 'cause they're my children.
Stef
Well, the campaign started, in my mind was going to be just a small, small brand awareness campaign
And it, it just kept growing, egg growing. Which, I mean, you and I both know that was going to happen, but I tried to keep it small. Let's just call it the beach [00:17:00] campaign. 'cause that's where I came up with the idea to throw a computer monitor. Onto the beach. Um, what would you like to know about the campaign?
Mia
Okay, so first of all, let's, let's do some marketing speak. Uh, what was the objective? What was some of the results?
Stef
So I'll do Steph Hansen speak, and then you can bring in the marketing language as best you. So as I was rolling it out, I, you and I joke about me not always doing all the homework I'm supposed to do, but I very much listen and take on board everything that you say, like I've learned so much from you and the Marketing Circle crew.
I just don't always have the right terminology, but there is always method to my madness and it's backed by the stuff that I'm learning through you. So I know that it was a brand awareness campaign, but so Renee had. Designed my logo and branding and just freaking nailed it. Just I, she sent me through a few options and she knew which [00:18:00] one she liked the most, and instantly I knew exactly which one I wanted, and then she designed the website.
So I was like, I'm gonna launch a website, everyone says. Don't do a, a campaign for launching a website, like who gives a shit? But then of course I'm like, well, I'm gonna make people give a shit about going to my website, which is what we want, right? We want people on our, what does Janine call it? Our um, uh, business card.
It's like a ever changing business card with all of our information on there. So I listen to Janine as well. So yeah, the idea was to get eyeballs onto my website so that people actually understood what I did, so, which is not just the point and shoot. Videographer and I think that one of my biggest points of difference is the way that I make people feel.
We talked about that at the start of this podcast. It's a real strength of mine, making people feel comfortable to tell their story, whatever that might be. So I want, I really wanted the website and this brand awareness campaign to really just showcase who I am. And I think I nailed it. I just, I don't [00:19:00] like it when people say things like.
I'm funny you, you should work with me. I'm heaps of fun. You know? I want to show it, not tell it. Another thing that I've learned from you, and that's why like with the photos that I use, they're all fun and me laughing, which is just who I am, but I don't feel like I need to tell people that I'm that guy.
I just wanted to show it. So I did that through this, a series of photos, and then the videos were mostly just me being an idiot, but showing you what the experience would be like working with me, that it's gonna be fun, it's gonna be relaxed, but it's also gonna be high Production value was kind of. What I was trying to put out there.
Don't think I've answered your question, but you knew that was gonna happen. I did. I did know that.
Mia
I really, really, really loved it and it is one of my favorite examples of a small business campaign for so many reasons. One, people like you, not you specifically, have a tendency because you're so creative to [00:20:00] just create art.
And really what we are doing in marketing needs to be art with purpose. And for some people they are too much purpose and not enough art, whereas really creative people such as yourself, not naming names, tend to just be all about the art. And so if, if there's anything that I feel that I. Can help you with, 'cause honestly, you don't need too much help from me is just the, when does this stop being art and when does it actually start driving some real revenue and business results for you? And so having that objective of actually getting people off social media and onto your own channel and increasing the, the number of quality leads from you, not just more people wanting more of the same head shots. Was great. Like you, you delivered on the objectives. But in a unequivocally Steph Hansen way
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Mia
You actually had a series of really social media first videos, and that is such an interesting thing from a videographer because you are shooting with a proper camera, not just an iPhone. So it's really high production quality, but you didn't just make one video. You actually made quite a series [00:22:00] and then that sustained the campaign.
So you, I think your campaign ended up being around three weeks long and you had fresh content for that entire life of the campaign, rather than overinvesting in just one video. And then like, what do you do after you've shared that to, to socials? Do you just keep you, it's not tv. We don't just keep resharing the same hero video.
So there's a lot of lessons there for me as well. Like the next campaign we're gonna work on, I want it to be serialized like that. Not just one video, but actually a series of videos and you know, maybe they're just 30 seconds each. And so yeah, there's a, it was really, really well done.
Stef
Oh. Thank you. And I mean, that's what I typically say to people who wanna run a campaign with me is, yep, cool hero video.
'cause you wanna have some kind of a brand video on your website, whatever that looks like. But we need to have other video content and or photo content to bolster that. Otherwise it just, it's kind [00:23:00] of a waste of your money. That's why, you know, we shoot over a couple of days so that we can get a whole set of content so that people can continue to be putting stuff out.
Yeah, with my campaign, like I still have so many other videos I wanted to do, but I had to, like, I had to reign it in. Otherwise, I'd still be campaigning now, so we'll save that for the next one. But I, I actually had a spreadsheet and I had things planned. But one of the things I wanted it to be quite, you know, I wanted to, I sent it to Brooke, the marketing data analyst, who's part of Marketing Circle and is an absolute legend.
She was very impressed with my spreadsheet. I really wanted this to be an experiment and a learning exercise for me. So as I was going and getting feedback from people, 'cause I haven't really put myself out there that much in terms of solidifying myself as a creative director. So I was taking feedback and then working on the fly.
So I'd come up with more ideas based on what people were liking and the feedback I was getting. But I appreciate that that's not, that's not how most campaigns [00:24:00] would be run. Most people who I work with would have a pretty clear indication of how they're gonna roll it out, but I'm in this really unique, beautiful space where I can work on the fly quite.
Easily. And I re I really enjoyed it. I was coming out with ideas on the fly and it was ace fun. I had so much fun doing it.
Mia
Yeah. Uh, I'd love to know a little bit about the results of the campaign, one of the ones that we've spoken about, which is. Possibly my favorite is that the problem with word of mouth referrals, which is what you said earlier, was how you were sustaining your leads is just one client recommends you to another client or recommends you to another client, is that you end up with all the same clients and if the the original referral, you know, patient Zero wasn't the right fit, then you just keep getting not right fit clients.
Whereas this campaign came out really loudly and proudly and said. Do not hire me to shoot your boring ass headshots. That's not what I wanna do. And so it was really about [00:25:00] repositioning you. And so you've told me before that now we're getting better inquiries about the, with the work that you actually should be doing.
Stef
A hundred percent biggest learning curve for me. And it's why in the past I haven't seen it necessary to market myself because I'm, I'm getting jobs, but they're not the jobs that I truly wanted. But to be fair as well, it's taken me a while or not a while, like I'm three years into this iteration of what I do, which is, you know, that's still pretty young in terms of a small business.
But now that I've figured out what I want to do, I feel really comfortable putting it out there. And this brand awareness campaign not only was to help other people understand what I do, it was really to help give me the confidence to know my worth and my value. And from that, I've had like five really good.
Campaign leads, which we're so close to signing off on, which is humongous. Like that one campaign lead from this brand awareness campaign [00:26:00] of mine would've been amazing. But I found like there's, I've had brand new people who I've never had any interactions with on social media, but I don't know, they might be stalking me a little bit.
I get a bit of that feedback, and then I've also had others who have said, oh, we've been following you. Wanting to do it, but now we are ready and your campaign and your website has given us permission to sort of, yeah, hit go. So like that. It's just been so valuable rolling it out. And I know you don't know the answer to this question, but does Brooke know what the website traffic was as a result? She sent me, I asked her if she could give me like five things, like diety things. She sent me five pages. Um, so, um, we love bra, just sidebar that cha chat that her and I had when I was like, can you, do you mind just sending me? And my worst thing is saying just because it totally undervalues what she's capable of.
And that's [00:27:00] not what I meant. I just didn't want to take up too much of her time. But that woman's brain is just like a thousand mice on a thousand wheels going a thousand miles an hour. It like it is so impressive. And yeah, like I had a phone call with someone else and by the time I finished a phone call, she'd sent me like this entire rundown of how everything went.I still need to go back through it and understand it all. But what I can say is that all arrows went up and she was really impressed with it. Um. Yeah. But, but also from a, oh, the post-campaign report with arrows. Yeah. But, but also like it, I was starting from a blank slate as well with a website, so you'd want to hope that the arrows are all going up. But she, what was also really valuable from her sort of debrief about the campaign from a data perspective was where exactly on the site people are going to and how I can [00:28:00] capture them a little bit better. So that when it comes to discovery call time or talking about potential campaigns, they've 95% made the decision already because they see what I'm about, what I do, what I, you know, pricing.
And the next bit is just more of that vibe check. So that kind of information that Brooke can give me, which matched my gut feeling. But it was so nice to have the numbers behind, you know, having this sensation of, yeah, it feels pretty good. So yeah, she's a, she's amazing.
Mia
She really is. Uh, I mean. I could not recommend working with Brooke enough.
The thing that I feel is definitely gonna happen for you as a result of this campaign is people are gonna be like, I've got amazing testimonials. I wanna share these amazing testimonials with my audience. Sharing testimonials is pretty fricking boring, and you showed us how interesting it can be to share a testimonial.
Like I feel like there's gonna be a [00:29:00] lot of people that should come your way going. All right, what do I do with the 72 amazing five star Google reviews that I have? What do I do with these? Customers that are chomping at the bit to talk about me in a really positive way because just sharing screenshots on Instagram is not doing anything for my business.
Stef
Totally. And I find this, that one's quite a challenging one as well. Coming out with different ways to showcase testimonials. I've actually, I can't say it because we haven't launched it yet, but I have come up with a really unique one with a client who I'm working with at the moment, but I couldn't agree more like testimonials are.
It's boring. So let's, what's a, what's a really cool way of doing it?
Mis
Uh, can you share how you did yours? It was so good.
Stef
The, so the beach campaign, I just, I was riffing with Renee who created the, uh, my branding and website and I was like, I wanna tell you, like, I'm really proud of this. I wanna showcase to everyone what we've been doing.
And so Meia knows that I actually have a website up and running now I've gotta make sure. I keep Mia happy and I was [00:30:00] like, I can't just sort of put it up. So I came up with this idea of, 'cause I love being outside and people know I love being at the beach and stand up paddle boarding. I'm like, that's kind of, you know how people sort of know me.
Let's lean into that. And also what's the, the coat of arms that you talk about? Yeah. Like, you know, that personality driven content. So like beach and outside, like you're saying, oh, I am funny. No, no one should be told that you're funny. They should. See that you're funny, but like bringing in elements of our personality and lifestyle that can kind of add humanization to our brand.
Yeah, so that's what I was really leaning into. Into that kind of thing. So I was like, right, we're gonna do it at the beach. I'm gonna find an old monitor, which was really hard to find by the way, and some of them were really expensive, but I managed to score one for about 15 bucks, and I was just like, I'm going to, I want to drop it into the beach, and then I'll superpose the website and everything on there.
That was how the idea started, but then I was like, no, no, this can be bigger and better than that. The video needs to then include me climbing up a cliff, trying to figure out where I [00:31:00] should drop this bloody computer from. Then, because shooting yourself is really, really hard. Um, but there's tricks and, you know, tips and tricks and stuff.
I was gonna do it myself, but I pulled in Brett, my husband, at the last minute to get him to follow me with the camera. And then interacting with him is just coming up Gold. People just love us bouncing off each other, which is, this is where this, I'm wearing a hat that says, can you hear me? Because whenever I'm.
He's filming me. I'm constantly directing him who's behind the camera. Anyway, so he came up with this concept. I thought it was funny. It's leans into my personality, outdoor, beachy, all that kind of stuff. And then when I came up with the testimonials, I couldn't just have. These women speaking on camera, like it was just too boring.
So then I turned that into you guys being down at the beach with me in this monitor, because I was like, it just brings it all together and then there's just this continuity, and then people recognize it and they know that it's all part of this [00:32:00] campaign. The other part of that though, is I can reuse those testimonials.
I'll just use them differently next time. You won't be. On the beach with me. I'll have you, I don't know, jump out of a plane with me or you know, something like that. I don't know. But it's just different. Unique fun. Yeah, it was really great. It was a really good opportunity. 'cause we were all at the retreat together and you set up the camera.
And then you walked away. And then, uh, Natalie ine, who's got a bit of a gift for being sort of straddling like the marketing, but also the production side, that she can do both sides, which is really cool. She just asked us like five questions and then we just had to answer down the barrel basically. I think I had been sent the questions, but I was hosting a retreat, so I hadn't read them.
So they were really just on the fly and it was like a really, yeah.
Mia
Interesting way to capture a testimonial because it's not just a testimonial itself. The format is boring. It's often what is said in the testimonial that's really boring. [00:33:00] Oh, working with Mia is such a great experience. She's so generous with her time.
It lacks that specificity in the specificity is where we find. The real magic, but someone just saying nice words, that actually doesn't make for a really great testimonial. 'cause like everyone can say, nice. Adjectives. It's like, no. Tell me exactly what it was about working with Mia that made it really valuable for you.
Stef
Totally. As you say, I walked away for a couple of reasons. Not that any of you would've been nervous about saying that stuff in front of me, but I just wanted to be like as authentic as possible without feeling like you had to perform for me. That's why I wanted to walk away. Also, who wants to stand there and just have people hopefully giving you a whole bunch of compliments, like I was like, it just makes me feel.
Yuck. I don't, I, I don't like it, which is why I walked away. But then editing those testimonials was probably harder because I'm sitting there going, ah, like I, it felt so nice. Like it was a lot of [00:34:00] nice emotions all at once. I had to like, go for a run and, you know, you know, go do something. 'cause it was just, it was quite overwhelming in the most beautiful way.
And do you know what, one of the questions that we asked everybody was, what's the most Steph thing about Steph? And I stole that question from you. I think it is one of the best questions. So much so that I went and saw Graham Norton. Brett and I went to see him, and that's what I wanted to ask him. And they, they didn't come to me, but I'm like throwing my hand up because I was like, I wanna find out what I was gonna say.
What would your friends say is the, is the most Graham Naughton thing about you? Because I thought we would find out something a little bit different. I love that question and I'm gonna ask it. Every chance I get. It's such a good question. Awesome. Well, that's actually a perfect way to kind of segue into how small business owners can be a bit more creative in their campaigns.
Mia
Um, so I'd love to know what kind of advice or tips you [00:35:00] have for people who are kind of starting to flex their creative muscles for the first time.
Stef
Ooh. I mean, this is gonna sound so lame, but it really is. Take a big swing, like just swing for the fences. Who cares? Do you know what, this is what I am currently finding that I'm saying to Frankie a lot when she, um, her team doesn't win at basketball, or she, you know, doesn't get her homework right or whatever.
And I'm like, mate, you probably learn more from things that don't go right then from things that do. So who cares if it doesn't work? You're gonna learn a whole lot of stuff. If it does, awesome. I just think this is, again, something that you said the other day, and it might've been in your honest marketing method presentation, I can't remember.
It's riskier to be doing the same thing that everyone else is doing. Like that is the greatest risk. Why can't you swing for the fences? It's gonna work either way. I figure.
Mia
eah. It's so hard because people are afraid of failing. They're afraid of [00:36:00] being called out online for being inappropriate. They're also, they don't trust themselves anymore.
Yeah. And we've lost that kind of playfulness and the, and I describe you as a fully grown child. I mean that in the most. Complimentary way because adults have really smoothed out all the fun parts of their personality. So perhaps my advice would be what were the sort of things that you did as a kid that you really enjoyed?
What were some of the silly things that you did as a child that have kind of dropped off over the years? Like I, I look at my son, he's so off in his own world so many times of the day, like. Pure. No one does imagination better than this kid. And I'm watching him sometimes and he says to me, mom, am I being really silly?
And I'm like, this is the best thing I've ever seen James. Like, honestly, it's so cool what you're doing right now. I wish I could dive in there and be there with you. Like it looks really fun. Just [00:37:00] keep going. I'm, I'm watching in awe of this, not in like. What's he doing? Yeah, it's so true. And, and I take fully grown child as, again, an another amazing compliment because it, that nails me so much.
Stef
The imagination of a child is one of the greatest gifts that you can have, and I, I just, I don't, I hope I never lose that. I don't think I will, but. Yeah. Like I love that it's, yeah, the world has sort of, um, made a bunch of beige noise humans out there. Um, and it's time to just reclaim that childlike sense of wonder and be, and be curious and have fun with it.
Mia
I feel like we are drawing inspiration from the wrong places. We are looking at things on social media and we're looking at that as a potential blueprint for our creative ideas. And I feel like if we are looking to social media, it's almost too late 'cause that idea's been [00:38:00] cooked by the time it makes it to socials, it's already overdone.
So maybe it's about finding inspiration. In new places
Segment: The Big Swing
We're both really inspired by television and film, and sometimes it's the dialogue. Sometimes it's the art direction, sometimes it's just the way that a particular thing has been. The story has been told where it's. Flashing between present and past or future and present.
It's like all of these breaking down all of these creative elements and almost being able to name them, almost being able to say, Hey, that's breaking the fourth wall. That tactic is called breaking the fourth wall. Could you try that? This is a skip, right? Let's, let's use that language. It's, its skit. This is.
Uh, deux ex Mackinac, like that's what that is. And they're like, oh, okay, cool. Could we use a DEOs ex Mackinac? Would that work in this campaign that you are planning? Or, you know, kind of learning to [00:39:00] identify creative tactics and then thinking about how could this work for my brand? What could be. Spin on this.
Stef
Totally. Yeah. A lot of the time, particularly in TV shows and movies, you feel like that's cool, but like you say, you, you don't know what to term it so you don't realize that it's possible for you to do it as well. Like I love all those ones that you just said. Breaking the fourth wall is one of my favorite ways of telling a story.
Candy. 'cause it's just fun, right? And the one shot, I'm obsessed with one shot because it takes so much skill and talent to pull off. A one shot. And when you see it, a lot of the times you don't know what's happening, but you feel you're part of that story 'cause you're so in it. But yeah, and then yeah, going back and trying to figure out how to do that, that's heaps of fun.
Ooh. Hmm.
Mia
Like adolescence, that amazing show the out of the UK that's on Netflix, that's only six episodes. The every episode was one shot, which it felt so much more [00:40:00] immersive than anything I've ever watched. Like it you really felt like you were in the back of that police car taking this kid to the police station.
Very, very different.
Stef
You know, so many people have reached out to me saying that I would love that. I still haven't watched it purely because the material was just, it was, I like just, you know, being probably wasn't in a great. Place at that time when it came out and I just, I felt like it was just too much for me to handle.
But when I'm feeling a lot better, I can't wait to watch it. It's meant to be amazing, but the one shot, from what I understand, was incredible and did exactly what it was meant to do.
Mia
Yeah, there are absolutely shows I can't watch as a mom, as a human. I cannot watch the Ruby Frankl documentary, you know?
That Christian YouTube influencer who was abusing her children, like it's very much in my, it fits my brand to talk [00:41:00] about, you know, misleading and deceptive marketing and what we see online versus the reality behind the scenes. So this could actually be a lot of content for me, like the Bell Gibson, but I cannot bring myself to watch someone who is monetizing her children.
Abusing them behind the scenes and like I saw like a trailer and it is really lingered where her kids were begging her to stop filming, like, can we not film? And she's just like, you will do this. You will, you know, you will just perform. And ah, oh, so gross, so, so gross. Yeah, I used to be a Handmaid's Tale fanatic and I haven't been able to watch the last season yet 'cause I just, I don't know, like something has clicked for me and I'm like, I, I just, I'm gonna struggle to watch it, but it is such an incredible.
Show. Yeah. Yeah. And, and totally fair. But that first season, from a cinematography point of [00:42:00] view,
Stef
I agree. I've not seen anything like it in a TV show. I, I mean, game of Thrones and stuff, but I didn't watch that either. But different, I'm not into dragons and stuff.
Mia
I find that television has gotten really violent, like Game of Thrones.
Set a new bar of violence. And then I found Handmaid's Tale, so violent, and I watched two seasons, and then after that I just couldn't, I couldn't,
Stef
yeah, fair. My anxiety was through the roof. I just got, I could not regulate anymore.
Mis
No, no. Like I'm now drawing a lot of inspiration from shows like Ted Lasso or shrinking.
And yeah, much more like that's, that's my happy place. Like if I need to self-regulate after a big day, really, really stressed, like I can go back and rewatch a Ted Lasso episode and I don't know, I just feel warm and fuzzy all over. Yeah. Yeah, same. And I mean, comedy for me is my [00:43:00] go-to. I will always lean into any kind of comedy.
Stef
It's how I roll personally as well. I think comedy is one of the greatest mediums for being able to tell stories. So, yeah, I'll always lean into those kind of things.
Mia
Well, we've like chatted for like nearly an hour. Is there anything else you feel like we need to cover or do we just like do this again in a couple of weeks?
Stef
Can we do it again? Like I, I could do this all day.
Mia
Yeah. Cool, cool. Awesome. Me too. One thing we didn't cover, maybe we leave it for next time, is just the idea of how. People work with you, like what's the best way to work with you? Because we both do campaigns, right? You do campaigns and I do campaigns, but we come at it from a different perspective and how that kind of.
Works, I think could be something that we should definitely explore.
Stef
Yeah. Let's, let's do that next time for sure. Awesome. Great.
Mia
All right. Well it has been an absolute pleasure, Steph. Go and [00:44:00] enjoy the weekend. Thank you so, so much for all the nice things that you said about me, and we'll chat next week, I'm sure.
Stef
Thank you for the nice things you said about me too.
Outro
I've started a substack as the ideal companion to the podcast. It's packed with. Extra insights, visuals, and nuggets that didn't make it into the episodes. Plus, you can revisit past editions anytime. If you want more or just prefer to read, you'll love it.
Plus, it's a place for us to connect. Want the backstage past to go marketing. Subscribe [email protected]. Thank you. You listened right up until the end, so why not hit that subscribe button and keep the good marketing rolling. Podcast reviews are like warm hugs and they're also the best way to support a small business.
You can connect with me, Mia FileMan on Instagram or LinkedIn, and feel free to send me a message. I'm super [00:45:00] friendly.
