Mia Fileman 0:05
Life’s too short for crap marketing.
The “Got Marketing?” Podcast is for marketers, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want marketing that’s fun, accessible, and meaningful.
Join me, Mia Fileman, for inspired chats with my favourite marketing insiders about marketing that works; campaigns that inspire; and the fads, fakery, and false prophets to avoid.
Hello friend! Welcome to today’s show!
Marketers are fantastic at convincing you that you need marketing, so business owners launch a business and dive straight in. However, the fastest way to go bust is when you grow too quickly without the right systems in place.
Your marketing is only as effective as your systems.
“When you first start business, everyone’s like, ‘You must have this!’ ‘You’ve got to use this!’ ‘That is the only solution!’ My advise is if anyone is saying you must, you should, you have to, just take a breath, walk away, and make your own decisions.”
That was Nicole Smith – lover of all things clever system design, business operations, and a virtual COO.
Welcome to the show, matey!
Nicole Smith 1:18
Hello! Thank you so much for having me here for this conversation! Very exciting!
Mia Fileman 1:23
This is the conversation that everyone needs to have but may not necessarily want to have because it’s not as shiny and glittery and fun as the Barbie movie campaign. However, absolutely essential to your business success, right?
Nicole Smith 1:45
I do talk about how we make it really fun because it can be known as the boring stuff, the background stuff that no one really wants to lean into.
But when you actually shine that lens onto what can be possible for you and your business, I see it so much – the eyes open wide, the excitement arrives, those expressions, that ease afterwards, that response of having those new things in place. It’s a beautiful experience to witness.
Also, I’ve had that feeling myself in my own business.
Mia Fileman 2:26
Yes, that comes across so strongly from your brand and your brand personality.
We know each other from OneRoof. We’ve been on a few power-up calls. Every time, I’m on a call with you, I walk away from that session feeling like someone has poured honey into my water. It’s incredible. It’s like, “Oh, my god! I feel better!” I feel better after seeing her.
If any of you listening can’t see Nicole right now, she has her signature headband which always matches her lip colour which always seems to match her nails and her dress. She is a ray of sunshine. It’s absolutely magnetic.
Nicole Smith 3:08
It’s fun, isn’t it?
I do remember going back to early stages, leaving corporate land, and thinking that a business owner was suit, black and white, maybe a pop of colour occasionally.
Then, I was like, “No, I am big earrings. I’m going right back to that colour and enjoyment that actually makes me ‘me.’ Let’s stand out, be fun, and be proud of who you are as a person.”
Mia Fileman 3:35
Totally. I see my husband get up every day and put on khaki green army camos. I thank the lord that I have never worn a uniform and don’t need to ever shop at Cue.
Sorry. It’s not my vibe. That very structured suit style of dressing is not for me.
Let’s dive in because I know people are really excited to hear about this – nervously excited, I would say.
First things first; can you please tell me what a virtual COO is? Because I’m not entirely sure. I have heard of virtual CFO but take me through that.
Nicole Smith 4:19
Yes, you’re on the right path there when you’re thinking about a virtual CFO.
A virtual COO is a chief operating officer that is not permanently in your business. We come in and provide that wholistic strategic view on where you are now, where you are going, and then aligning all the moving parts in your business to start to feel easy and streamlined and be able to be aware of things that little bit quicker.
If you think about the corporate land in those C-suites, there’s always the CEOs, the CFOs, the COOs, and that’s just me.
Mia Fileman 4:55
Nicole Smith 4:57
There are CMOs, CPOs, lots of C-suite things, right?
As a business that size, you don’t need to have a full-time human in there, so you will be able to have access to these fabulous people – me included – to come in for a moment in time, or for a duration. We call it a partnership with our virtual COO.
It’s a partnership of creation. That’s it in a nutshell.
Mia Fileman 5:24
So good. I can definitely see why startups and small businesses would need someone that’s not permanent full time doing that. That sounds amazing.
What do you mean specifically about systems and integrations? Can you break that down for us? Because it can mean a lot of things, right?
Nicole Smith 5:45
Yes, 100 percent.
We come into your business and look at the ways that you are operating. This is from a day-to-day operational point of view.
The tasks, the actions, the ways that you are working, the processes, the tech – all the things you are touching and moving in as a business leader from whatever time you start in the morning to the end of the day. Also, as your team is moving.
How we work differently is that we are not necessarily specialists in an area such as marketing or HR or finance. However, we hold the knowledge enough to be able to support you to shape wholistically the systems and also identify where we need to lean in more on a certain area.
Let’s give you an example.
Let’s say an accounting business of 10-plus members. There are certain regulations we need to be aware of. When we are looking at choosing tech, when we are looking at designing your workflows and your processes, we need to be really aware of all these compliance things to ensure the tech is selected correctly, that our team is trained correctly, that any templates or things that we’re using day in and day out are all compliant with that particular industry that you’re in.
We start at the start. We do what we call discover. We understand what’s working now. We come into designing to how it’s going to be going forward, working with you in partnership to integrate it into your business, so that may look like building a tech solution for you. That may look like creating some training packages. It may look like creating all the most fabulous automations, connecting all your tech together.
The final phase is the really important one which I know you talk about where you can create these beautiful strategies, but until you actually take the action and train your team or make it a thing which we call connection, until that moment is created and connected in, it is just this beautiful diagram on a piece of paper or a whiteboard or whatever it might be.
In those connection phases, it’s SOPs, training our teams, really having that support for you and your business to connect in with your new ways of working so they become business-as-usual operations. That’s the power – when your sustainable ways of working are now business as usual, so that you – as a business leader – can really focus on that future plan.
Where are we going? What does my team need from a support point of view? Where are those gaps in the market that we can lean on into now? What is that next campaign that we can lean on into? It’s that sort of space instead of “oh, no, the thing is not working!”
We smooth that all through for you.
Mia Fileman 8:38
Yes, I can see how that might be challenging for you to communicate what you do to your audience because it’s so bespoke. For me, you might need to set up ClickUp and automate some forms. For somebody else, it may look like SOPs and training documents and videos and so forth.
That’s a marketing challenge I’m very happy to help you crack, Nicole.
We have a mutual client – Remi from Sunday Best Digital. I was talking to her yesterday. She works with a lot of contractors in her business. As anyone knows, it’s a revolving door with contractors. They come in; spend three months, six months, maximum 12 months; and then, they are gone. That can be such a time-suck for someone like Remi to be onboarding and offboarding and training them in the middle.
I can definitely see how it’s so important to have those SOPs locked down so that it’s like, “Next!” In, out, in, out. Obviously, her attention is fantastic, but it’s the nature of the beast, right?
Nicole Smith 9:47
Something to note – when we’re talking about systems, naturally, we fall into thinking about tech and applications. That’s one element of what an actual system is.
If we think about HR, IT, marketing, operations, sales, legal – they are all siloed systems within a business. Inside, there are people. There’s tech, process, and all those things.
When we’re looking at creating such as an employee or a contract or experience, how do those people come into the business? What is their onboarding process? What training information do we have in our beautifully curated training library with videos and walk-throughs and words – all the things capturing all the different learning styles?
As a business leader, it’s really easy to welcome in and out as needed based on what your business structure is.
Mia Fileman 10:46
Yes, that’s a really good way of looking at it. Thank you for that!
I also really loved what you said about the importance of connecting, configuring, and integrating.
That’s something that I come up against a lot where there are customers of mine that come to me and say, “I want to use Flodesk, and I have a Squarespace site.” I’m like, “Well, that’s tricky! Or it might be tricky. I don’t know.” There’s so much scotch tape and crazy glue that is holding together small businesses.
There’s so much manual work that is happening to glue together two together. I love that you go in there and create the tech stack as one part of what you offer. That is so much more seamless than crazy glue.
Nicole Smith 11:41
It’s interesting. When you first start business, everyone’s like, “You must have this. You’ve got to use this. That is the only solution.” If anyone is saying you must, you should, you have to, just take a breath and say, “Thank you so much for your advice!” and then walk away and make your own decisions based on the structure and the strategy of your business – not just now but where you are heading in the future.
If you’re a solo business owner or you’re going to be a freelancer and it’s only going to be you, your experience will be very different to someone who’s building a company structure with five or ten-plus employees. Different areas, different financial commitments, different structures or security structures. It’s all of those sorts of things.
We also have an opportunity at any time in your business, if it’s feeling clunky and you’re looking to go to that next step, perfect. Stop. Start at how you’re working, though. Don’t go tech first. Go right back to the start. Look at your process. Look at your workflows. Then, that piece of tech that’s right will appear.
Or come and talk to us; we’ll help you find it.
Mia Fileman 12:43
I tell my customers every day, “You should do this.”
Nicole Smith 12:47
It’s so important.
Mia Fileman 12:49
Sorry. I do.
It’s not specific recommendations on tech, though. It’s like, “You need to get professional headshots. You must have a strategy before you do tactics. You need to pull back on social media and start prioritizing other things.” I’m more of the stick than the carrot – unapologetically.
Nicole Smith 13:17
I love it.
Mia Fileman 13:19
How do we use systems to create more informed personalized marketing specifically? Because, ultimately, it’s “Got Marketing?”
Nicole Smith 13:29
100 percent. It is all about the marketing!
I think you hit the nail on the head with what you shared. It is really about your strategy first.
We at The Artisans have gone through a little bit of a reshuffle – not even a refocusing – on how we are marketing because it was feeling hard. It was feeling clunky. It was feeling a lot all the time, and it didn’t really feel like much was coming back in from it.
Go ahead. Work with yourself or whoever your marketing human is. Get that strategy in place. Then, what happens from there?
Let’s use mine as an example so that it’s practical.
Our podcast – Take Control with Nicole – is our cornerstone piece of marketing. From there, we have a weekly episode that goes out. From there, informs our themes for the month, our themes for the week. It goes into our newsletters. It goes all the way through the socials.
I pick out that thread conversation and elaborate on it from there into whatever it might be that is that important piece to share. From a process point of view, it has become so much easier to work in and out of that experience now because we know we’re focused. We know what we’re talking about. All of our team know their roles in the process.
As an example, for our podcast, we have all our episodes recorded, edited, ready to schedule before the month begins. All of our content is created or in draft stages moving through before the month begins. Then, in the month, we are able to be creative different ways. We’re able to lean in over here. It’s not like, “Ugh! I haven’t done the thing anymore!”
That’s looking then at tech. What tech are we needing? What people are we needing? What experience are you wanting to create for yourself and your external potential clients or community?
For me, that’s how we’ve used our marketing system. It’s picking out those bits and pieces for that consistent approach so it’s easier to enjoy – not only the messaging that you’re getting out now but anything else that appears. Coming on a podcast like this with you.
Last night, I was asleep and woke up with these ideas. It was actually something Remi shared that you had mentioned to her yesterday about talking to the people you want to be working with.
Mia Fileman 16:05
Sounds like something I said.
Nicole Smith 16:07
Yes, it’s amazing.
I’ve got different pages of potential campaign ideas going on here.
If I had been in the zone of getting out, I may not have been able to capture that because the space wouldn’t be there.
Mia Fileman 16:22
Where I feel systems are so critical in your marketing is with a system for gathering audience insights. That is fuel for your marketing. Every marketing campaign, every post, anything that you do that is consumer-facing should be informed by consumer insights.
But often, those insights are in 100 million trillion places. They are in our inbox. They are in email replies. They are in DMs. They are in Slack messages. They are in Google Drive folders. They are in Trello boards. They are in text messages. They are in Typeform surveys.
One of the best things we ever did was create a system that pulls all of that social proof, all of that audience insight into one central location so that when we start building our campaigns and our strategies, we go back to this central location and be like, “What is the consensus about this? What is the room saying? What is the collective room saying?” as opposed to “Tony sent that over email, then Nicole sent that via Slack.”
That is one small example of how your systems can save you when it comes to your marketing.
Nicole Smith 17:51
100 percent, and it’s not just marketing.
Central hubs of operations are essential for any business – whatever size you are. Choosing that central location that information and data is going to feed in and out of. Something to be really aware of though is data out is only as good as data in.
If you are putting rubbish in, if you are not maintaining it, if you are creating and saying, “Look at this fabulous thing I’ve got,” that actually you only go into once a month, it’s not going to support you to have that experience of streamlined and easy and functioning. It’s actually going to cause a bit more pain.
What you’re suggesting and creating there, you can really make that easy with automations, triggers, and actions, streamlining it and siloing it all into that central point, so when you are starting that next campaign, you’ve got that data at your fingertips. You don’t have to spend ten hours going, “Where was that again?” It’s already in there for you.
Mia Fileman 18:49
No one’s going to spend the time, so they’re like, “I think that what my people want is…” I can hear the trepidation in your voice, dude! You are making some pretty big assumptions and, no, I am not building an entire marketing campaign on “I think.”
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Something we touched on very briefly earlier in the chat was this idea that ideas are only ever going to be that. They are only going to be good ideas if you can’t implement them properly.
Nicole Smith 20:10
Mia Fileman 20:12
Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Because I definitely have some thoughts, too.
Nicole Smith 20:17
In business, we can easily get diverted or distracted. “This is the hot thing! Focus, focus, focus. Oh! What’s that? I’m going to go over there. Focus, focus, focus.” Then, you’ve got all of these projects that are partially done. You end up with this feeling of “another thing, another thing, another thing.”
When you actually create an action plan, a step-by-step implementation plan, also keeping in mind change management if you have a team of people or even contractors, being aware of the change management process to bring them onboard, to have them engaged in that transition will give you that extra streamlined experience when you are implementing it in.
But it’s really about getting that action and documenting it down – whether you’re using ClickUp, Trello, or Asana. It’s Project Management 101. Step-by-step, this is what’s happening, when it’s happening, by who. How are we tracking it? Are we on track? It’s all of those sorts of things.
Testing is something we forget. We obviously live and breathe it here, building out of people’s systems. Getting it in, testing it, making sure the experience is as expected, but also knowing that things iterate and evolve each and every day.
If you have created and finally implemented this thing and you’re like, “Woohoo!” then next week you’re like, “Oh, actually, this button should be…” then change it! In a small business space, you don’t have to go through ten layers of red tape to get approval and wait six months to make a change. We have this beautiful ability to “yes, let’s do it!” and make the change.
Now, there is detriment to that sometimes. If we continuously change, we’re never going to see that calm experience of a real solidified solution in your business. However, in those early days, as you’re testing, trying, and you’re really feeling into who you are as a business, how you like to operate, how your team operates.
Here at The Artisans, we are all about developing a business that is built on the foundations of sustainable operating practices. Now, I’m talking about people here – people-focused experience and ways of working. Everything we do flows in and out of that. If it’s not ticking those boxes, we review it.
Implementation sometimes takes a little bit of energy, but the investment of taking that energy focus for a period of time will far outweigh you continuing to be like, “I’ll do it this way because I’ve done that for a hundred years.”
Mia Fileman 23:07
This is why, in Campaign Classroom, we start with the exciting creative compelling campaign idea, but then we spend a lot of the program talking about how you are going to bring that to life because there are so many different moving parts. Like you said, we have got to assign roles, dates, and milestones.
You don’t often have the luxury of “we’ve got 12 months to launch this.” Usually, we’ve got four weeks to pull all of this together and integrate ads with emails, with organic social media posts, with collaborations, with a landing page, with PR, and get all that happening at the same time with a million different contributors and collaborators in this, and a lot of little micro tasks – all of that needs to be mapped, and it needs to be balanced.
Nicole Smith 24:03
Mia Fileman 24:03
One of the big things that came to me as you were talking was this idea of small business owners being so fortunate because we can jump in and change something, but that requires control.
What I have realized – working with many small business owners – is that they outsource before they upskill, so they actually don’t have control. They don’t know the ins and outs of their website.
They are using a web designer. Every time they need a form, they go back to their web designer. How do you not know how to create a web form? To me, that is an absolutely essential business skill. They don’t feel comfortable logging into their own website and duplicating a landing page. There are so many things that I hear time and again.
I have worked with a million-dollar business. She will not write any of her own copy. She will not do any of her own graphic design. She has no idea how her website works. All of it is dependent on an outsourced team, but then her team have got other clients and other projects, so she has to wait until they are free, until they can charge her $250 an hour to do it when they are ready.
Meanwhile, I can go and flip the Campaign Del Mar home page right now. Emily will kill me because it won’t look pretty, but I can flip it if I need to fix a broken link. I can create a web form in 20 seconds and get on with it.
Nicole Smith 25:52
Yes, you’ve hit the nail on the head.
That’s how we operate at The Artisans – as in the positive way. Anyone that works with us, it’s a partnership. We could go “we’ll go and build your XYZ insert system name here.” We could do that for you, and then you will have no idea how to control it.
But, actually, the really important thing for us is that, after our experience together, you hold the skills to be able to move it forward, to make those adaptions, to insert new whatever it might be. We will be here if you hit a roadblock and you’re like, “I just don’t know!” 100 percent – bring us back in for a period of time to help you move through that next phase. You now have the skills. Continue on.
That was really integral. Obviously, I’m a tech head. People come, “Are you an expert in data?” We are not, but tech is like air for us. The most important thing is how we’re going to do it, and then the tech just flows in.
I know and appreciate that not everybody is like that, so we make sure that they feel comfortable and confident. If you’re confident with your tech and your systems, having that ability to exactly do what you say.
Imagine if you’re an e-commerce business and your website had a glitch on sale launch day. You have to be in a queue to get support. It’s such a risk! Take that energy and lean into the basic skills. What is that thing that could really make or break that campaign or that launch or whatever it is?
“As a business leader, do I have the skills to easily jump in? It may not be beautiful, but can I problem-solve the issue and fix it?” It’s a vital skill.
Mia Fileman 27:40
Yesterday, I got given the opportunity to write an article for Barbie on Mamamia. That includes a link to my website. When that happens, I want to have it so that any new people hitting my website are going to be served with a lead magnet when they land on the website so that I can get them onto my email list. In addition to writing this thousand-word article, I needed to go into my website, make sure that the lead magnet was configured so that it’s there, waiting for those website visitors.
In business, timing is everything. If you sleep on these opportunities, they’re going to sail right past you. Definitely worth heeding that advice, for sure!
Nicole Smith 28:27
Mia Fileman 28:30
Your business is very fast-growing. It has been so inspiring to watch you go from zero to where you are now in such a short amount of time.
I’d love to hear your personal experience about how your systems have supported you as you’ve started this aggressive growth and scaling of your business.
Nicole Smith 28:52
Yes, 100 percent.
We’ve had our wrap-up of 2023 financial year. We’ve doubled our revenue over the last 12 months. We’ve significantly increased it, actually, to be fair. It’s exciting, but with that growth – as I know from supporting business leaders – it can be a little bit daunting when you’re right in the thick and thin of it.
Having our structures and our foundations have been integral to supporting me to be me and my team to be them – even in moments where I am a human. I am like, “What is going on right now?” My team can at least continue in their systems, doing their things.
We have also had a real focus on our internal operations at The Artisans, diving into how we’re serving our clients, what our services look like, and really evolving our own templates and our own ways of internally operating.
Talking about websites, we had a whole project on the service pages. You were saying being able to do it. I was leaving them to sit there for the moment. Then, I’m like, “No, Nicole. This is action. This is your action. Let’s do it.”
In a couple of hours, I went in. All the details were there from all the things we’d been doing with the team. I updated four services pages. Got them live on the website. All-new imagery. Things done, done, done! It’s so exciting to be able to share those out with the world.
Ultimately, when you have the foundations in your tech and in your team, it has felt light and easier. The one most recent change that I probably told you about already – we elevated part of our nurture series for our clients and their (30:48 unclear) series. We’ve integrated a system called Qwilr which is a proposal tool. We’ve created some beautiful animations.
Mia Fileman 30:57
It’s bloody offensive, though. Far out.
Nicole Smith 31:00
Qwilr? Yes. Well, I guess it’s relative to the importance on the experience, right?
On my podcast at the moment, we’re all talking about client experience and designing it to support your business. For me, Qwilr was that next level of elegance.
Mia Fileman 31:17
It is very elegant.
Nicole Smith 31:19
It makes me so happy. It is so easy now. I press a button in ClickUp. The template is loaded in Qwilr. The document ID and the URL goes back into ClickUp for a purpose that I’ll share in a moment. Jump into Qwilr. Customize it because it’s all about customizing versus creation. That’s where we want to be leaning into. Go back in. Automated templated email. Load it up. Put a button in. Customize. Off it pops!
When those clients are excited to work and they press Accept, guess what happens? Another automation comes back into ClickUp. Clicks Accept. Status change. Sends an email. Starts our onboarding. Now, we get acceptance and onboarding form within ten minutes of each other.
It makes my heart sing and gets me excited. This is what you get when you work with us. I get excited about my own, but just as excited about yours! From a business leader and someone that has never really thought of themselves as a salesperson, it’s so easy and enjoyable. Internally and externally, it’s such a beautiful and smooth experience.
Mia Fileman 32:28
What’s the big purpose for it?
Nicole Smith 32:30
The purpose of that nurture phase?
Mia Fileman 32:34
Yes, you said, “I’m going to tell you in a minute.”
Nicole Smith 32:36
Oh! It’s easy. That’s all.
Mia Fileman 32:38
I thought there was a big reveal.
Nicole Smith 32:41
Oh, no, it’s elevation.
Over the 12 months – that iteration of the business – we’re now really stepping into where I have always known we were going to be. I’ve gone on this beautiful journey of education, learning, trialling, and testing.
My value is added when I can come into a business and really work with whatever tech that you have got going on, whatever size team you have going on, because that is where my joy lives – translating “how we want to” into “how it is going to be – regardless of systems, tech, people, all the things.”
Mia Fileman 33:21
That is so valuable.
To me, as a marketer, that is the selling point. It’s not one size fits all. We’re not just ClickUp or just (33:33 unclear) or just Clavio. It’s about the principles.
I get this too because I have an email marketing program, so I get people approaching me going, “Will the email marketing program specifically cover Clavio?” I’m like, “No, it will not. It’s going to cover your email marketing strategy.”
I know you feel that your business is completely unique and no one in the world has ever sold scented candles before via Shopify and connected that to Clavio. Spoiler alert – they have!
I am going to show you the strategy. You can go and stick that in Clavio. I promise you; it is going to work exactly the same way as Active Campaign. Active Campaign is probably just going to call it something different, but there is going to be a button that allows you to segment your audience. There is going to be a button that allows you to tag your audience. There are going to be lists of subscribers. There are going to be triggers. There is going to be automation.
Each email service provider CRM is going to have their own technology terminology, and verbiage around that, but the principles are the same which is why, in my 21-year career, I have worked for fast-moving consumer goods, professional services, not-for-profit, government, online business, e-commerce, startups, and I can walk, talk, sing, dance in all of those spaces no problem because I understand, live, and breathe strategic marketing foundations.
Nicole Smith 35:12
Mia Fileman 35:13
If anyone comes at me and says, “Mia, you should niche down in services,” I will not niche down into services after spending ten years working for Vegemite, Maybelline New York, and Bic. I get products. I get them very well. Anyway, excuse my brand, Nicole.
Nicole Smith 35:37
It’s something that I feel quite passionate about as well because everyone is like, “What industry do you service?” We are not industry specific. I’ve worked in global corporate financial services industries. If you want a process, a system, and a regulation, come on over and visit us over there. Coming into transport and logistics, smaller financial services industries, and now – with my business – we have serviced industry name it. Chuck it at me. I would say that we’ve been involved.
As you were sharing with your experience, it comes down to the principles of what we are looking to create here – workflows and processes. In those bigger organisations, my role has always been the translator between the business and working with custom-designed databases to utilise their features and ones that have not yet been developed.
It’s talking the tech. I cannot code – one day maybe – but I know how to talk tech. I know how to work with our suppliers at whatever size to actually get those things in place so that they are automated, easy, and paperless. It’s simple.
One of the things my brain thinks last night was around this word of “productivity” and how a lot of people lean in and focusing on the human is not productive whereas, when you actually look at what productivity means, it’s about that overall experience in the business. That could be the spoiler alert of where I’m going with the thing, but the education piece – I’m ready to do it!
Mia Fileman 37:16
Everyone that’s ever worked with you has raved about you, so I’m not surprised that your business is taking off. I love supporting you and watching you do it. Campaign Del Mar is on a similar growth trajectory.
I love being around other women. Of course, there is suck, but we don’t need to be embarrassed or ashamed about the fact that our businesses are growing and thriving. New challenges come to being past that first messy year. It was an absolute pleasure to chat with you, Nicole.
I will put into the show notes all of your details. Where is the best place for people to find you?
Nicole Smith 37:56
On all the socials, I’m at theartisansolutions, but Instagram is where I’m hanging out. Or LinkedIn. I am loving LinkedIn at the moment. My personal page – Nicole Smith. Maybe go into the link because there might be a few of us, but you’ll see me. Actually, I’m not wearing my headband on that one. I’ve just got a funny “ah!” face. You’ll see it’s me.
Mia Fileman 38:17
I will hyperlink everything. People should definitely reach out for a chat.
Thank you once again for being so generous with your time and your knowledge, Nicole! It was such a pleasure!
Nicole Smith 38:27
You’re welcome. Thank you!
Mia Fileman 38:29
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