Mia Fileman 0:05
Life’s too short for crap marketing.
The “Got Marketing?” Podcast is for marketers, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want marketing that’s fun, accessible, and meaningful.
Join me, Mia Fileman, for inspired chats with my favourite marketing insiders about marketing that works; campaigns that inspire; and the fads, fakery, and false prophets to avoid.
Hello friend! Welcome back to the “Got Marketing?” Show!
Behind every extroverted successful businesswoman is a right-hand wingwoman. If I think about Melissa Brown, she has (0:45 unclear). If I think about Sheree Rubinstein from One Roof, she has the incredible Fran Goh. We are no exception at Campaign Del Mar; I, of course, have Emily Lambourne.
Today, we are doing something very different. I am going to have Emily on the show for the very first time. This is her very first podcast. This is quite ironic because Emily runs the “Got Marketing?” Podcast. I just turn up and talk. Emily does everything else.
Let’s hear it for Emily.
When I think of a campaign, I think of a string of bunting, actually, and all the different flags are all of your different moving parts – your channels, your tactics, your messaging, the visuals – and they’re all tied up with the string. The string is what holds them all together – the big idea.
That was Emily Lambourne – Digital Strategist at Campaign Del Mar.
Welcome to your show, Emily!
Emily Lambourne 1:42
Thanks, Mia! I think it’s about time that I’m on the other end of the microphone!
Mia Fileman 1:48
When you’re listening to the episodes and you’re like, “Is it so hard to just speak clearly?” and you’re like, “Yes, it is.”
Emily Lambourne 1:57
Or listening to episodes that have been recorded and it’s a month ago and there’s crackling. It’s all the fun things from the other end.
Mia Fileman 2:06
I can imagine!
Why don’t you share with our listeners today, what is your role at Campaign Del Mar? What do you do? How do we work together?
Emily Lambourne 2:20
Me, Campaign Del Mar, and Mia go back all the way to April 2021 when I started as intern of Campaign Del Mar – which was then Idiello, actually, throwing it way back – at her dining room table in Newcastle. Scared little me in my final semester of uni, starting in my big marketing career.
Since then, I have gone from intern to part-time marketing coordinator to full-time digital strategist. I was full-time with Campaign Del Mar – fully onboard. My role covers a lot of things, as Mia alluded to before.
I coordinate all the editing and basically post-production of the podcast. I do a lot of design. I help Mia with a lot of our consulting projects. I feel like I do a bit of everything here and there. If Mia needs it, then I do it.
Mia Fileman 3:24
You sure do!
You work across the entire business. you really take a front seat in our campaigns, but also in our programs. I feel like I have exhausted the ways that I can talk about campaigns. Despite the numerous different ways that I’ve used to describe a campaign, there are still smaller brands out there who are not entirely sure about what a campaign is.
I would love to hear if you’ve got a definition or an explanation because different people respond to different voices.
Emily Lambourne 4:03
Yes, there are so many that we’ve used – the container, the theme, the big message.
But I’m very much a visual person, so when I think of a campaign, I think of a string of bunting, actually, and all the different flags are all of your different moving parts – your channels, your tactics, your messaging, the visuals – and they’re all tied up with the string. The string is what holds them all together – the big idea.
Being a visual person, it really helps to have that image in my head. That’s my definition of a campaign.
Mia Fileman 4:36
I freaking love that. That’s awesome. I’ve never thought of that. That’s fabulous!
Emily Lambourne 4:41
Different perspectives. Different words.
Mia Fileman 4:43
From your view of coming into Campaign straight out of your university career, how would you describe to people how we run campaigns?
Emily Lambourne 4:58
We really approach campaigns from a “work smarter, not harder” perspective.
Often, in university, education, and official marketing training, it all seems very big, scary, and unapproachable. I like how we break it down into each part. It starts with a big idea and then you move to the next step which is the messaging and then the visual identity.
I really think that Campaign Classroom in particular breaks campaigns down into each individual part to be more digestible by not only marketers but also founders and business owners to make them more approachable for those who aren’t professional marketers.
Mia Fileman 5:46
Yes, there’s this real perception that campaigns are so expensive, they’re reserved just for global big brands and that you need to go to a super expensive ad agency to create a campaign. That exists – of course, it does. Sure, you can do that. But by definition – as you’ve said with your bunting definition which I freaking love – it doesn’t have to be that way.
Emily Lambourne 6:13
Mia Fileman 6:14
The whole premise of entrepreneurship is doing things differently.
I feel like the way that we do campaigns – exactly as you said – well, what’s the principle of a campaign? It’s focused on a particular objective. It’s tired together by an overarching message. It reaches customers in a variety of ways. By definition, that doesn’t have to be expensive.
There are ways to reach customers in multiple ways without it costing the earth.
Emily Lambourne 6:41
You’ve said before, give you a million dollars, you can run a campaign; give you 500 bucks, you can run a campaign. It’s all about working with what you’ve got to get where you need to be.
It’s being realistic about “I’m not going to start a business tomorrow and run a million-dollar campaign.” That’s pretty obvious, but I’m going to do what I can with what I have – with the skills that I’ve got in my toolset already – and make it happen, basically.
Mia Fileman 7:09
You have to manage your expectations because what we find with some Campaign Classroom students or prospective students is that they are spending only $500 or $1,000 on their campaign but expecting that they are going to make $50,000 or $60,000 or $70,000 from their campaign.
That return on investment is unheard of, actually. That’s part of the process though, isn’t it? Because there are so many people whispering sweet nothings into their ear, telling them that that is achievable. I feel like a bit of a work plane kit.
Emily Lambourne 7:49
You can dream big. You can do it, right? Maybe not necessarily, but you’re right. It’s managing those expectations. You’re not going to turn a rock into a dime overnight. That’s the reality of it, I guess.
Mia Fileman 8:07
What’s been your favourite campaign that you’ve worked on?
Emily Lambourne 8:11
I think my favourite is actually the most recent one we’ve launched, Mia – the Creative Lab.
Mia Fileman 8:14
Emily Lambourne 8:15
Because I’ve taken such a front-seat role in the creative identity, I’ve really been able to go for it. It’s really fun to see that kind of idea go from I’m pretty sure you Slack messaged me or texted me or something and said, “Neon,” and I said, “All right. Bet. I’m on it!”
Either the Creative Lab just because of my role in it or Make Marketing Great Again was fantastic. I do love the vibe of getting on the set and having all the cameras and watching you up on the podium just switch it on at Slack. It’s incredible. I don’t know how you do it, but I’m happy for you to keep doing it.
Make Marketing Great Again was really great because it was showing exactly what we talked about. It doesn’t need to be an incredibly huge budget. It can be one camera. We filmed that in three hours, did we not? It was great!
Mia Fileman 9:15
Yes, so much to unpack with what you just said.
The Creative Lab – which is our most recent campaign – is the most lo-fi – even though it’s neon.
Emily Lambourne 9:24
Mia Fileman 9:27
It’s a quarter of the budget of Make Marketing Great Again.
We had a brand shoot in Darwin which was less than $600. You did all the graphic design. Then, I’m running a Spotify ad campaign which I recorded using the podcast microphone. The exact setup that I’m using right now for this podcast is what I used to record the Spotify ad. It’s the lowest production value, but it’s going really well, I think.
Emily Lambourne 9:56
I think so, too.
I really like the strategy we formed for this as the pre-step or the training for Campaign Classroom. We’ve had that discussion many a time of what we can do with this kind of idea. I’m really proud of what we’ve made of it.
Mia Fileman 10:15
It was challenging, right?
Campaign Classroom is nine weeks. That’s the minimum amount of time you need to come up with an integrated marketing campaign. Most of the people who do Campaign Classroom haven’t run too many campaigns before, but no one wants the program to be longer because it’s a lot of investment in time. Also, longer program, more expensive, and we’re trying to keep this accessible for smaller brands.
How do we make sure that we get the results in those nine weeks? We looked at the feedback. You and I spent a lot of time discussing how it’s going. We identified that the trickiest part for the campaign was coming up with that big idea.
Could we frontload that? Could we get the students hitting the ground running of Campaign Classroom, already able to see a big idea and spot it? If they were to watch a campaign tomorrow, could they dissect the big idea? Because then that’s going to help them get theirs.
It’s setting the stage for that big idea. This is where this Creative Lab came from which was all about laying those creative foundations so that, if they choose to join Campaign Classroom – and everyone that is doing Campaign Classroom in August is doing the lab – then I think they are going to get even better results from the program.
Emily Lambourne 11:45
It often is finding that big idea and that big creative swing that is the hardest part. Getting that happening and rolling before the program Campaign Classroom even starts, it’s a sound strategy, Mia.
Mia Fileman 12:01
Then, you spoke about Make Marketing Great Again and me having to turn it on for the camera. That comes very naturally to me. I’m a raging extrovert. If I wasn’t on the conference room stage, I would want to be on a theatre stage.
I want to throw it back to you because the way that this business is evolving is that we are making you more prominent in this business so that it’s not just the Mia Show because Campaign Del Mar is not a personal brand. That was a very deliberate choice. We could have called this business Mia Fileman, but we didn’t.
I want to hear from you how you feel about it because you are not as extroverted as me.
Emily Lambourne 12:43
Mia Fileman 12:45
What a journey that’s been for you.
Emily Lambourne 12:47
I am the first to admit that I am a raging introvert. I often come off meetings and need to go and have a quiet moment with my crochet. But it is one of those things that, as with every creative, you’ve got to put yourself out there somewhat.
As a Gen Z who can’t even make a phone call to book a doctor’s appointment, it’s pretty scary, but I think that it really is me knowing how far I can push myself and the boundaries of how far I can go without overstepping it a little bit, personally.
Obviously, I’m not going to be starring in our next campaign film or anything like that, but doing things like this – getting on the other end of the microphone of the podcast and having my picture in our Meta ads for the campaign which is scary – and putting myself out there as Emily Lambourne rather than just Digital Strategist is what we’re doing to make sure that it is a Campaign Del Mar brand, and I am a part of that.
Mia Fileman 13:49
A huge part of that. Honestly, it’s just you and I now. I couldn’t do this without you.
I think that there’s definitely a lesson there for other solopreneurs or small business owners. For me, I first had to check what Emily’s plans and dreams were because – investing in making her a part of our marketing strategy – obviously, she wants that, you also want to make sure that she sees a future at Campaign Del Mar.
There are no guarantees in life. I can’t hold Emily, but at least having those really frank and open conversations about “Do you see yourself here long term? Are you comfortable with being a bit more of the face of this business?” It definitely starts with a really good conversation.
In terms of how we’re planning to elevate Emily’s profile, there are the obvious ways. Obviously, Emily is going to be featured on our social media. She’s already all over our sales page for Campaign Classroom and the email marketing program. She’s now on the homepage.
The first step for me is really going back to what I did to start to raise my profile which was earned media. Podcast interviews is the first thing. Emily has just been invited onto a fabulous podcast called Good Chats with Cass Ponton. She’s going to record that soon.
Anything else you want to add to that, Em?
Emily Lambourne 15:29
Taking the lead on the email marketing program is another big step for me. I spent a lot of time watching you work your magic in these programs. It’s also an internal trust thing. I know that I know all of these things. Email marketing and funnels and behind the scenes is kind of my jam.
It’s putting myself out there in ways that I’m comfortable with is the way moving forward.
Mia Fileman 16:00
Have you seen this? I don’t want to call it a trend because I think it’s more than a trend. I think it’s a movement on TikTok – employees as influencers. Employees of a company are creating content on TikTok, but they don’t work for themselves. They work for another company.
They’re talking about how great their company is and what they’re doing for their company. The comments section is like, “Who do you work for? This brand sounds awesome!”
Have you seen this?
Emily Lambourne 16:33
I think I have seen a version of what you’re speaking about, but I do see people that go to work in the big offices and make it look like they’ve got the fantastic role. I think it’s great.
Mia Fileman 16:47
Yes, I think it’s great, too.
I think it’s a really clever take on influencer marketing about your employees. In 2023, every role in a business is a marketer role. That’s what I believe, honestly.
With the amount of marketing that is required across all these channels and all these touchpoints, everyone works in marketing. Building that into the fabric of your company, especially for startups or online marketers like us, it’s just part of your job to be making content.
I think that sounds like a very sustainable way to do business in 2023 because it’s too much for just the one person in the marketing department.
Emily Lambourne 17:36
Yes, divide and conquer. Everyone has their role to play.
I’m not actually sure if it’s the Woolworths TikTok account, or if it’s someone that works for Woolworths, but he makes hilarious content which makes working at Woolworths look like the most fun thing that you could do with your day – like that’s what you should aspire towards.
But you’re very much right in that everyone has this platform nowadays. Anyone can upload a video to TikTok. It becomes an all-in effort, doesn’t it?
Mia Fileman 18:07
Also, there’s a payback for the employee as well because they’re essentially being paid to create content under their name. The handle is not @woolworths – although it might be. It’s @emilylambourne. You are creating videos. It’s personal branding. You are talking about Campaign Del Mar, and you are paid to do that. But then, if you were to leave the company, you still have that account and those followers. You talk about “I’m actually now doing my own thing” or “I’ve started my own business.”
It’s like a LinkedIn profile. This is the new LinkedIn profile! You have a TikTok account.
Emily Lambourne 18:50
It’s the video resume.
Mia Fileman 18:53
A video resume! That’s what it is!
Emily Lambourne 18:55
Yes, it’s the portfolio of work. It’s the proof of experience.
A lot of job listings nowadays require that you have a TikTok following or an Instagram following or a platform that you can use as your personal brand that this new business you are working for can leverage as part of their marketing strategy as well. I have actually read that in job listings, Mia.
Mia Fileman 19:22
I don’t know if I can get onboard with that.
Emily Lambourne 19:25
It feels wrong. It feels like they are hiring a person based on their following. It would come down to Person A has 100,000 followers, and Person B has none. Who are we going to hire? It’s pretty wild that they can have these requirements on job listings.
Mia Fileman 19:47
I have always said that demonstrable skills are much more important than degrees, qualifications, and so forth. I get the best of both worlds because you are actually degree qualified.
But I would happily hire someone at Campaign Del Mar to do strategic and creative marketing if they didn’t have a degree or a diploma or anything – if they’ve gone and created a Facebook group, have members, created a movement, created content for that, and they’ve organized a rally or an event or a “Let’s Clean Up Australia” Day sort of style thing where it shows to me that they’ve actually got the skills to create campaigns or create movements.
Emily Lambourne 20:42
It’s funny you say that because they actually do recommend that to you when you are in university in your final semester looking for jobs and opportunities. Honestly, I agree with you – the best way to demonstrate your experience is to do it. You can talk the talk but can you walk the walk?
If in the future a TikTok resume is a part of that, then sure!
Mia Fileman 21:05
Yes, so true!
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Next year, I’m moving overseas, and I will be in a different time zone – which I am now anyway. Darwin is practically overseas.
What’s the plan? What are we doing?
Emily Lambourne 22:07
We are going to synch our clocks. We’re already starting to plan for next year. We’ve already got a bit of a pipeline for what’s going to happen. Mia, you’ve made it clear that you are enjoying the time with your family overseas. You’ve got young kids. Why shouldn’t you?
I am stepping in to Nail Your Email Marketing Strategy. That’ll be my baby.
Campaign Classroom – we’re unsure of when we’ll be running it. Everything’s kind of up in the air at the moment, but I’m really excited. I feel like we’re in this big momentum at the moment. It’s going to be fun to take it into 2024 and see how I can step into a bigger role in the business and let Mia reap some of the rewards and have a well-earned break.
Mia Fileman 23:00
Yes, and there are a few things that are hard to let go.
I had a chat to Jodie Norman this week – our copywriter and editor. She helps me with all the articles that we submit to publications. She is fabulous. We work so closely together. She was surprised to learn that I actually create all the social media campaign content for Campaign Del Mar.
She was like, “What?” I’m like, “Yes, all of it – absolutely all of it.” She was like, “But then you get somebody else to schedule it to LinkedIn, don’t you?” I’m like, “No, I do it all.” There are a few things that are harder to relinquish, but then seeing you deliver the lessons in Campaign Classroom and the email marketing program, I’m like, “No, she’s got this. She’s totally across it.”
Emily Lambourne 23:52
That makes me feel better about it.
I’m very excited. I have come to love running the sessions in Campaign Classroom and the email marketing programs. It’s all a confidence thing. You do it a couple of times, you get the swing of it, and then you’re in the flow. It just happens!
I’m not worried about next year as such, but big changes are coming.
Mia Fileman 24:20
Yes, the only thing that worries me is the fact that it’s now less than six months until I go, and I have done absolutely nothing to prepare for this overseas trip because all I’ve done is work. If anything, I need to pull back on the business a little bit so that I can actually get some visas.
Emily Lambourne 24:40
Give me some of the reins, Mia. It’s time.
Mia Fileman 24:43
To that effect, what advice, lessons, or themes do you see coming up in Campaign Classroom that you can impart to someone listening today about if they are thinking about running a campaign? What are some of the big themes that have come to you?
How many intakes of Campaign Classroom have you done?
Emily Lambourne 25:05
Gosh. Two a year for 2.5 years? Probably upwards of six or seven.
Mia Fileman 25:13
Yes, that’s a lot of campaigns.
Emily Lambourne 25:18
The biggest trap we find is people biting off more than they can chew. If it’s your first rodeo, go easy on yourself. That’s my biggest piece of advice.
Sometimes, we find that people are so hard on themselves – wanting to move mountains with their first campaign. Honestly, a campaign can be as simple as a photoshoot, or a different visual identity for a few weeks, or a short video series of a certain piece of content.
Definitely, the biggest piece of advice is do what you can handle. Don’t try to move mountains.
Mia Fileman 26:01
Yes, because people see our campaigns like Make Marketing Great Again and the Gurus We Deserve, and they’re like, “That’s what I need to do!” and you don’t need to do that on day one.
Emily Lambourne 26:19
That is Mia Fileman’s millionth campaign. So many years in.
Our campaigns are aspirational. They really are fantastic. We’ve shown the results that we’ve earned from them, but you can earn just as great results with smaller, scaled-back campaigns. Not everything needs to be a big-lights production.
My biggest piece of advice is do what you can with what you have.
Mia Fileman 26:47
Totally. That’s very solid advice.
What about people who don’t run campaigns?
Emily Lambourne 26:54
Why aren’t you running campaigns?
Mia Fileman 26:58
Have you drunk the Kool-Aid? Are you completely converted?
Emily Lambourne 27:03
I’m converted to campaigns, yes.
Everyone has to have always-on marketing. My advice to people that don’t run campaigns would be don’t keel over because of your always-on marketing. It doesn’t need to be this way. It might feel complicated but, again, it doesn’t need to be.
If you haven’t run a campaign, give it a crack. If you haven’t done it before, what have you got to lose? As I said, it can be as simple as a different visual identity for a few weeks with a key message theme idea. Jump on campaigns.
Mia Fileman 27:42
For you, what is the most fun part of a campaign or your favourite lesson in Campaign Classroom?
Emily Lambourne 27:50
The most fun part of campaigns for me is the visual identity because that’s my thing, but my favourite lesson in Campaign Classroom is the post-campaign analysis which is crazy. I was the numbers kid in school, so the numbers at the end of it are really fun to me.
I love looking back on what you did, looking at the results the campaign earned, and seeing all of the blessings of your hard work in the last four weeks or however long your campaign is. I love rewards. I’m a typical Gen Z. I want instant gratification, but that can’t happen. Doing the post-campaign analysis at the end of the campaign is the closest I’m going to get.
Looking back on what you’ve done is probably my favourite bit.
Mia Fileman 28:39
That’s probably my least favourite.
Emily Lambourne 28:42
How many times have I said we’re a good team because we do what each other doesn’t like?
Mia Fileman 28:47
Yes, that is so true!
I really butt heads with my former business partner because we were too similar. We were both Leos. We were both very extroverted. We were both really confident in our decisions. Also, we were ideas people. We would move fast. The great thing about working with you is that you are like, “It’s a great idea, but how are we actually going to make it?”
Emily Lambourne 29:17
I’m the one that’s on earth on the ground.
Mia Fileman 29:23
Final question – what’s your favourite campaign? All-time non-Campaign Del Mar.
Emily Lambourne 29:32
My favourite campaign of all time is the Match.com “Get Back to Love” campaign with that super catchy song. I am a muso at heart. Every time Mia plays that song, it is in my head for three days straight – no joke. I know every single word. But it’s also just a really great idea.
Coming out of the pandemic, weddings had been cancelled for 12-months-plus. Wedding singers wanted to get back to work. How much more perfect could it be than a song about getting back to love? That’s my favourite campaign of all time.
Mia Fileman 30:10
I have to say that one is pretty special. We play that at our wrap parties for Campaign Classroom because it’s entertainment, but it’s also advertising. It’s advertainment! Everyone gets a kick out of it. It’s so good.
Solid choice. I like it.
Emily Lambourne 30:29
Yes, that one and another one that is up there is the Extra campaign with the Celine Dion song. That’s another favourite as well.
Mia Fileman 30:38
That’s so good.
Emily Lambourne 30:38
Yes, all of the post-pandemic “coming out of lockdown” themes are the ones that stick with me for some reason.
Mia Fileman 30:46
I think it’s because they’re so relatable. The ones that are good have been able to really touch on how the collective consciousness was during that time period. I feel like because that time was difficult, especially for making campaigns because you couldn’t go out there and shoot them, there was this pent-up creativity that then finally blew its stack.
I think that some of the best campaigns have come out of the pandemic because creativity requires constraints. I think the pandemic served as that difficult time where people had to get smarter with how they would shoot their campaigns. Apple created a major campaign 100 percent using user-generated content. I think that that’s so clever and so creative.
Also, for the first time, everyone – every demographic, every age, every gender, every person in every country – was going through the same thing. As marketers, it is about trying to find those things that unite us so that we can get our message to as many people and have that message resonate.
Because we all experience the same thing, in some ways, it actually made marketing so much easier because we knew what someone across the world locked down in Canada was feeling because we were feeling the same thing locked down in Australia. It was such an interesting moment in time.
Emily Lambourne 32:25
Yes, we all felt it. You’re right.
Mia Fileman 32:28
Thank you so much for braving it and coming on the “Got Marketing?” Show!
I am going to chuckle when you have to edit this episode.
Emily Lambourne 32:38
Already dreading it!
Mia Fileman 32:39
We will laugh. I’ve got a bit of a rule that I must listen to every episode that I record. Otherwise, I’m not going to get better at becoming a host – even though it is honestly my top ten things that I hate doing. Now, it’s going to be one of your top ten things that you hate doing!
Emily Lambourne 33:00
I’m already thinking of how I can listen to the episode back as quickly as possible to get through the pain as quickly as possible. But, again, I’ve got to find ways to put myself out there that I’m comfortable with. I just need to make it happen.
Mia Fileman 33:16
Exactly! I love that attitude! That is absolutely the right attitude!
Thank you so much, Em! I know that it’s not in your comfort zone, but I think you did a really great job.
Emily Lambourne 33:27
Mia Fileman 33:28
All right. See you tomorrow!
Emily Lambourne 33:30
Mia Fileman 33:31
You listened right up until the end, so why not hit that subscribe button and keep the good marketing rolling?
Podcast reviews are like warm hugs. They’re also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia Fileman, on Instagram or LinkedIn. Feel free to send me a message! I’m super friendly.