Mia Fileman 0:05
Life's too short for crap marketing. The Got Marketing Podcast is for marketers, business owners and entrepreneurs who want marketing that's fun, accessible and meaningful. Join me, Mia Fileman for inspired chats with my favorite marketing insiders about marketing that works, campaigns that inspire and the fads, fakery and false prophets to avoid.
Hello friends, and welcome back to the Got Marketing podcast. I'm your host Mia Fileman, I am fascinated by non-traditional business models. There are so many different ways to do business differently, create new revenue streams and find new ways to deliver value. Today, we're going to talk through a lot of examples, the pros and cons and what to be mindful of.
Fiona Johnson 0:56
Coaches and consultants and strategists. Their business model exists around working with people for a really long time and getting them to the point where they feel they can't exist without them. So I always have that sort of, not an exit plan, but just a sort of transition plan in terms of what happens when we reach the end of what we're doing now. So yeah, I'm always there for my clients if they want to check in with me, but I do encourage them, you know, reaching out and either finding an in-house version of me or learning how to do it themselves.
Mia Fileman 1:30
That was Fiona Johnson, a corporate accountant turned business coach and finance mentor. As many of you know, I'm a defense partner, and we move around every two to three years. This made running a traditional agency extremely difficult and stressful. And for seven years, I kept adding agency offices across the country while also starting a family. Queue: Full burnout, postnatal anxiety, disaster. I honestly considered getting a job at Country Road when we received yet another posting letter to Newcastle four years ago, because I was done with setting up agencies every place I moved to.
Transitioning to an online business and becoming a full time trainer and mentor, and then offering online programs has changed my life for the better. But the appetite for online courses has dried up and this does worry me. Now it's all about masterminds, retreats, and memberships. Let's check through it all, shall we? Joining me on the poddy is one of your fav guests, Fiona Johnson from peach business. She is a business strategy working with female founders and entrepreneurs. Welcome back to the show, Fi!
Fiona Johnson 2:57
Hello. Thanks for having me, Mia. All right.
Mia Fileman 3:00
Let's kick this thing off. Chat us through your business model.
Fiona Johnson 3:05
Yeah, look, when I started, to be completely honest with your audience and knew I didn't know how to explain what I did. I knew how I was going to do it. And in fact, one of my longest and biggest clients that I work with now we met a couple of times over coffee, and he said to me, Look, I don't know what you're going to do. But I'm happy for you to start. And that was the start of a 10 year long, so far, relationship.
So because I didn't know how to explain exactly what I was going to do and how I was going to do it, I started offering just standard consulting and advice by the hour. And this was nearly 13 years ago. And in the first say five years of my business, I did actually branch out to a few different business ideas. So, I launched I think three new businesses in that time, a couple of them were shelved one of them was sold. In fact, one of them was a creative agency, which might make you laugh, you probably don't know that about me. But Peach Creative was a thing for a while.
So I experimented in these different spaces. And over time, I realized that I knew how to explain what I did a lot better. So that kind of came after the first couple of years of actually doing it for clients. And so once I started to understand that what I was doing was business and finance strategy, and I worked out that I really loved working with people one on one. And I loved that more than I loved the sort of back of house, you know, doing reports and putting numbers together, which I can do with my eyes closed, but it just didn't bring me as much satisfaction as sitting in front of a client and having a one to one conversation. So how my business model looks now is really reflective of the fact that you know if we think of a business model, but the term business model essentially means how I deliver value through my business.
So I really wanted to be able to work with solo and small and medium businesses. And I knew that those three types of clients needed different services from me. So the way that I've designed my work now is that I have an online group program, which is really high touch just like yours. I also have a one to one, six or nine month program for those kind of, you know, the businesses that are just starting to grow a team or they have a small team. And we work in a really high touch environment, which is, you know, very collaborative. And then the larger businesses, so the businesses that are sort of two to 25 million turnover, they don't want to be doing any of the finance stuff themselves. So I am their fully complete, CFO or chief financial officer. And those three different services, I suppose were, the first one is the learn with me, which is my group program. The second is that do it with me, so let's learn, teach me how to do it and show me how you're doing it. But be there while I'm actually doing it as well. And then the done for you, which is my kind of top level service. So that's how I deliver value to my clients.
Mia Fileman 6:15
I love it. You also said something to me in a previous conversation about how you love to wean your clients off you like from the minute you start working with them. You're planning the breakup.
Fiona Johnson 6:27
In a very nice way. Yes, it's really important to me, because I think a lot of coaches and consultants and strategists, their business model exists around working with people for a really long time and getting them to the point where they feel they can't exist without them. So I always have that sort of not an exit plan, but just a sort of transition plan, in terms of what happens when we reached the end of what we're doing now. So yeah, I'm always there for my clients if they want to check in with me, but I do encourage them, you know, reaching out and either fighting an in house version of me or learning how to do it themselves.
Mia Fileman 7:06
I couldn't agree more, I might sound flippant about it. But I think it is actually brilliant. Because every relationship can get stale, but also exactly like what you said that once you pay to outsource, you'll be paying forever. Whereas the skills that you teach and you offer and same with me, these are skills that are worth acquiring in house they're worth insourcing is instead of just outsourcing. And so I think it's very practical of you to understand that your clients are not going to want to be paying to outsource forever, and that you build that into the strategy. And then you're always there, as you said, if they want to come back to you.
So the adage, give people what they want, should be every marketers guiding principle. Just give the people what they want. In your view, though, what do people want?
Fiona Johnson 8:02
It's such an interesting question. I love that you framed it in terms of what do people want, as opposed to what it is that they need. Because in all aspects of life, what we want, and what we need isn't always exactly the same thing. But what I think is, most business owners know what they need to do, or they've got an idea of what they probably need to do. So all business owners need that base level of education. So you know, do it with me, or learn with me and show me how, but once somebody knows how to do things, what I find is really important for all types of businesses is accountability. Because we all know what we should be doing.
But we're not doing it. So what I think is really important as a service provider, you know, it doesn't matter what kind of business model you're operating in your clients need at the very basic level, they need education. The next level up is accountability and support. Depending on what you do, like actually giving somebody advice, it's just for them, so tailoring it to suit their needs. So you might still take them take every client through the same process. But the outcome or the sort of output should be tailored to exactly what that business owner needs.
And I think community can't be underestimated as well. I think we agree on that one, that whether it's in a sort of group program, or a mastermind or just a Facebook group, or whatever it is. That feeling of belonging is really lacking in business owners, especially when they first start out. And they come out of working in a job where there's a natural friendship with their co workers. And now all of a sudden, they're just sort of sitting on an island on their own with a Wi Fi connection. So yeah, I feel it's a mix of community education support and then that accountability of, you know, what do I do now that I have this knowledge?
Mia Fileman 10:05
I couldn't agree more my research from being an online course creator, and having an online business over the last three years completely aligns with all of that is that a lot of the education you can find online. Like, it exists. You know, there is so much content out there. But exactly like you said, why people aren't, Why aren't they doing it? And that's because humans are fundamentally flawed creatures. We just are. And unless there's some urgency and accountability and this feeling of letting people down, then we're not going to do it. In both of our programs, we show up for our audience, and so they are like, Oh, I better do my homework or Mia's gonna get really upset with me, you noticed that real accountability of like, you know, they're going to feel embarrassed, or they're going to feel unprepared, or they're, you know, I'm going to call on them in a group setting, and they're not going to know the answer. All of that is really, really important in getting people to do what we need them to do in order to get the business results that they want to get.
Fiona Johnson 11:15
Yeah. And even aside from all of those feelings, like just getting the most value that you can, from an experience as well, I think it can't be emphasized enough that regardless of whether you're working with somebody in a one on one situation, or in a high touch group, like yours, or mine, if you don't put the work in, you're not going to see any results. And that's okay, if that's what you're wanting is just a sort of start in the, you know, putting your toe in the water. But why bother, you know, if you really just coming to an experience to just sort of skate around the edges, you might as well just save your money, wait another six months until you're actually ready to do the work and be accountable to yourself and the other people in the room, and then you go on to actually get so much more value from the investment.
Mia Fileman 12:06
I agree. I think this is why only 15% of online courses are being completed, though is that not enough accountability and support is baked into the model. And this was very much a 2020/2021 narrative that I saw come out. Everyone was stuck at home with COVID. No one was commuting, and there was a real push towards evergreen marketing courses that were very sort of just watch the videos in your own time, choose your own adventure. And people didn't complete them. And it didn't transform their lives. And so now, there's a real lack of like, course is almost a dirty word, and I've had people like run polls in Facebook groups saying, Oh, if you were to learn about leadership, or if you were to learn about finances, how would you like to learn about this? One on one, in an online course, digital product? And no one says they want another online course.
Fiona Johnson 13:08
No, we're done. Yeah, the same applies in other aspects of life, too. It's like, you know, for some people, they can motivate themselves to watch a, an online YouTube yoga clip that they just turn on at 7am every Tuesday morning. I am not one of those people. If I'm doing yoga, not only does it need to be in person, but I actually need to either book in and pay beforehand, or I need to be meeting a friend there because I just can't be accountable to you know, oh, yeah, I said I was going to go it just doesn't work for me. And I think that's a pretty common experience.
Mia Fileman 13:44
Oh totally, I work at home and I live at home, I can't work out at home as well, I get to take were asking too much from one house. In terms of what else people want from a product based business perspective, because we've spoken a little bit about service based businesses is that they don't just want to buy products with no greater purpose. Now that there are you know, beer companies who are, you know, donating a percentage of their profits to the planet, that there is ethical underwear companies made from bamboo using recycled fabric. There is you know, so many alternative green products. Why would I go and buy a water bottle that does nothing other than be a receptacle of water with no greater purpose. So I'm definitely seeing that people are like, Okay, before it used to be, oh, I just I really wanted it was a pretty thing and I want to buy it. Now we are looking for deeper meaning and a greater social impact in the products that we're buying.
Fiona Johnson 14:53
I think people are also trying to brand themselves as well. I don't know if that's the right way of explaining it, but it's like, you know, people buy products, because that reflects who they see themselves as. And it reflects how they want to be perceived by the world. So, you know, you'll notice that a lot of beer companies put the name of the beer on the glass when it's sold at the pub, because they know that people want the glass of beer to say what the brand is. And a lot of beer is also now made in cans. Because that allows someone to carry the brand around with them at the pub, or at the barbecue or the party. So just using beer as a really easy example. I think, this idea of having meaning behind a product, it's because we remember stories. So human beings don't remember things like this can is 300mls, and it has 47 calories. And I'm just saying that because I'm drinking a bubbly cucumber water, believe it or not, but we do remember things like hey, this particular sparkling water was infused with wonky cucumbers. So they're actually telling me that they're using food waste or stopping the cucumbers going into food waste, and using them to flavor a bit of bubbly water. And that allows me to connect with the story that I'm being a part of the sort of food waste problem. And this is my small contribution.
Whether it actually makes a contribution or not is a whole other story whether the ease of the sort of social good is actually making an impact on the actual, you know, issues and causes that each company is trying to address is perhaps another conversation. But yes, I do think that people are looking for a lot more depth in the products that they buy, whether that's environmental community, or you know, some other aspects.
Mia Fileman 16:53
I think that it is genuine because people are naming and shaming, greenwashing and the ACCC is clamping down on greenwashing. And there are now so many brands, who are doing really good things that are like social enterprise brands like Thank You and ZeroCo and Clothing the Gaps that is holding us all to a higher standard. But I couldn't agree more with you about the fact that it is an extension of our identity.
A true story. There is nothing that pleases me more, Fi, than someone walking into my house and asking about the ZeroCo bottles everywhere. What are these pastel colored bottles around your house? I am so glad you asked. Let me tell you about my moral superiority.
And how I am like un-trashing the planet. One, ZeroCo plastic bottle at a time. Thank you.
Fiona Johnson 17:50
So true. And yes, I use ZeroCo too and love them. I think what I was saying before is I do think that there's a genuine attempt by companies to address social good, and to, you know, create solutions to problems that are big. However, I think on the consumer side, people want to do things that are easy. So in the generations before us, there were hippies and now there's hipsters, and essentially they're two sides of the same coin. I think people in the generations before us were more willing to do the work, whether that was composting or going and you know, buying from a community garden or whatever that they were doing. Whereas consumers now are looking for a small action that they can take, whether it's buying ZeroCo, or whether it's having a Who Gives a Crap subscription, which I totally have too but those things are easy. They don't always address big problems. Like for example, I noticed that there's a lot of companies that use compostable mailer bags, which is fantastic, but the packaging is such a minut part of the carbon sort of footprint of a product. And what we need to be doing is actually looking at the product itself and not just focusing on the fact that it's a compostable mailer. So yeah, I've totally taken us off topic there. But I really love saying businesses that are addressing the whole problem like ZeroCo is and doing it in a way that's actually easy for the consumer.
Mia Fileman 18:57
The conversation goes where it goes, it's fine. I did actually say something similar on LinkedIn this morning. Yeah. Where someone posted that Morning Fresh had had refill packs now available in Woolworths. And then the plastic free organization commented saying this is greenwashing. Yeah, because the pouch doesn't get sent back to Morning Fresh to be washed and sterilized and reused. So what you've really done is you've replaced throwing out a Morning Fresh plastic container with throwing out a refill pouch and the refill pouch holds less than the plastic container. So you've saved uplifting, single use plastics, I really take your point about how we can exaggerate really small steps and not really focus on the bigger picture. And I feel like we're just scratching the surface in terms of social impact. But every little bit counts. I think, as long as we don't exaggerate, so that we all go into this eyes wide open, saying this is literally just the beginning, and by no means do we deserve an award. This is the start, that will get us on the right trajectory.
Fiona Johnson 20:41
I've actually said for a long time that I think that in about 50 or 100 years, there won't be not for profits, they'll just be, you know, social enterprise and business. And even that definition will start to be blurring the boundaries, because I think people are so motivated by the idea of something like ZeroCo, or Who Gives a Crap or Thank you, or Patagonia or any of the number of organizations that are just businesses making money. But they're doing it in a way that's so ingenious, and so easy to connect to, as opposed to charities, which are starting to become a really different way of addressing a social problem. So there's a lot of kind of slowness about them and a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of red tape, which there should be, but yeah, I love the idea of thinking about, you know, this social enterprise business model, bringing it back to what we're actually talking about, as being something that will be a much bigger part of the business landscape in, you know, 50 years or so.
Mia Fileman 21:44
Yes, that is such a good point. Charity now, almost has a bad name one, because it's often quite religiously motivated. And it's like, I don't know if I want to be giving a percentage of sales to the Catholic church if
Fiona Johnson 21:59
I definitely don't. Yeah.
Mia Fileman 22:02
And then also, exactly like you said, a lot of administration costs, a lot of bureaucracy, very slow to action, but also not very well funded. Because they're a charity, they are not well funded. So you're so right, in terms of having a for profit brand, that sells consumer products and brings in decent revenue so that they can actually make real impact. But, you know, I was chatting to a client this week, who is a not for profit, and they have like $0 to spend on anything. Yeah. Like, well, how much impact are you going to be able to make if you've got no money,
Fiona Johnson 22:39
And there's so much donation fatigue as well, don't get me wrong. I think that Not for profits and Charities are amazing. And I have worked with many as both a volunteer and in a paid capacity. And I think that at the heart of every charity is somebody who really wants to create a massive social change. It's just that the avenue to do that may be different, and already is becoming different over time, than the avenue or the business model that they're doing that through now. So, you know, charities need to move more into the sort of enterprise space. So what can they sell? Or how can they sort of motivate or incentivize their donors and make them customers in a way that actually fits their business model and their whole ethos, such a good point, love that.
Mia Fileman 23:31
We'll be back in just a minute. Don't go anywhere.
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Mmm, it's good for the business owner who's facilitating the online course because they can work with multiple people at a time. Anything else that comes to mind when it comes to pros and cons of online courses in the context of 2023?
Fiona Johnson 25:13
Yeah, I think that our course can be really great for solving a very specific problem, or upskilling in a very specific area. So your email marketing, would we call that a course I think we would. That addresses a very specific thing. It's something that's very actionable, it's tangible. And it's something that you can move through within a couple of sort of simple modules. And you also probably realize that it's not going to make you the best email marketer in the entire universe, it's going to give you some pointers to get you on your way. So I think, of course, is great for a specific purpose, it's for something that's kind of probably quite foundational, as opposed to, you know, it'd be difficult to imagine a course that was for an expert level, email marketing, or expert level baking or expert level, whatever. Because a course, there's just not enough time to develop that sort of next level of skills.
Mia Fileman 26:13
I feel like I'm Mark Ritson's mini MBA, which is 12 weeks, which is for in house brand and marketing managers. Does the executive level execution really well.
Fiona Johnson 26:26
I suppose 12 weeks. So I mean, that's, you know, perhaps moving into more of a program, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, who cares what the definition is, I think you and I, when we talk about a course, or thinking about something that's quite sort of short or sort of small, not particularly high touch, and it's something that's fairly, you need to be quite disciplined and autonomous, to be able to sort of pull it off?
Mia Fileman 26:50
Yeah, for sure. I find that people greatly underestimate how much effort goes into making an online course,
Fiona Johnson 26:58
oh, my God, Yes.
Mia Fileman 26:59
Even, a little short. For modules. It's incredible actually saw a blog this morning, as I was preparing for this podcast, someone had actually done the math on it, and it was $5,000. By the time you factor in your time to write it, and then a designer to do the graphic design for it, and then to shoot the videos and edit the videos. And then to get a learning management software, which is what customers expect now, like, they don't want PDF downloads, emailed to them, they want to log in and have this great user experience of logging into like a Kajabi, or a Thinkific, and having it all laid out for them. Meanwhile, that's like $70 a month for the online course creator. So I would say that, if you are thinking about launching an online course, thinking it is the easy route to reconsider that.
Fiona Johnson 27:56
Yeah, look, I think my experience of launching any, whether it's course or program, or downloadable or whatever, is that the amount of effort that you need to put in upfront will be probably 10 times the amount that you kind of estimate when you're first considering it. And that can be worth it, if it's something that you're going to, you know, have as a long term asset in your business. But you and I both agree that there is no such thing as passive income, there is scalable income, and there's leveraged income, where you create once and so many times, but yeah, I think the upfront investment in something, even just a small course, will be a huge amount of effort.
Mia Fileman 28:38
And that's even before you start marketing it. It's, you know, just the upfront sunk costs of building it. And you know, getting it all in good shape and making it something that people are going to really engage with and listen and watch and be valuable. And then you have to market it. It is huge. Yeah.
All right. What about masterminds? They are their hottest, latest trendiest thing.
Fiona Johnson 29:04
Yeah, look, it's interesting. And perhaps I should have expressed my opinion slightly differently about a course because I see now that you're making a course and or a program that might be high touch. So yeah, I think a lot of the pros of a program in inverted commas are about that sort of high touch, experience.
A mastermind. It's a funny word, isn't it? I think it is kind of all the rage. I don't think a lot of people actually know exactly what a mastermind is. Some businesses have masterminds where you can join at any time, which I find a little odd. So I think some of the pros of being in a mastermind is mainly that sort of community, being around your peers, and maybe even being around people that are at the next step in the business adventure from you, that you can learn from. Some of the cons from a person that's investing in it is masterminds are expensive, and it's okay that they're expensive they're supposed to be, but I think when someone's considering, do I want to do a $2000, or $3,000, online program or group program? Or do I want to do say, a $10,000 mastermind?
You really need to understand how am I going to be able to leverage or use what I get from this program. So if you're a business owner, and you're bringing in $100,000 a year, spending $10,000 on a mastermind is not right for you. It might be right for you in two or three or four or five years time. But I think we need to be realistic about the kind of investment level that is right for our size of business. So I think most businesses can afford to do a two or $3,000 kind of program each year. I think that's a really great investment level for a sort of solo business owner. But spending $10,000 on a mastermind, in my mind, you probably need to be bringing in at least $200,000 a year or more in order to be able to even have the possibility of recouping the investment that you've made. And the idea of a mastermind is that your systems and processes and business model are at a point where you can actually not just recoup that $10,000, but make 10 times that amount because of what you learned, or the contacts or the new way of thinking that you get from a mastermind. So yeah, it's a big investment, and it's going to be very dependent on who is in the room with you, which you can't control.
Mia Fileman 2:16
That, to me is the biggest con is that the mastermind model, from what I've seen, and like you said it gets packaged up a little bit differently is about putting people together. And it's it's driven by a coach or a mentor, or someone's facilitating it, but it's really about not just one on one, but like this group environment, and it's about the collective wisdom. And so then it lives and dies by who's in the room. And I've joined masterminds where it was epic, and I was in the room that I wanted to be in and I felt like the dumbest person in the room. And that's exactly how you should feel. And then it all got, you know, changed up. And I ended up babysitting newbie business owners who were 12 months into their journey, and I was explaining to them the like one on ones. And I've realized that I had better things that I could be doing, I was in the wrong room. So I I definitely feel like that's the con.
To your point about like recuperating costs is such an interesting point, because obviously, the person facilitating the mastermind will say, Well, if you don't join, how are you going to get to the $200,000-$300,000 revenue, what we're going to help you get there. And so what you're saying is that you might not have the business to facilitate that kind of growth. Is that what you're saying?
Fiona Johnson 3:38
Yeah, what I'm saying is that, and I see this a lot, I actually have a lot of people who come to me, and they tell me, I've just done a $7,000 mastermind, or I just did the $10,000 mastermind, or I just did the whatever. And they come to me and it'll just be on a discovery call. They haven't actually been able to translate what they learned in that mastermind into actual dollars, or into anything sort of tangible. And I see I don't know, how they make the decision about being sort of lured into these masterminds, but I think there's a lot of that kind of, do you call it revenue signaling? Or it's not really virtue signaling? Is it is it revenue signaling?
Mia Fileman 4:19
Yeah. Income claims?
Fiona Johnson 4:22
Yeah. So I reached my first seven figures. And you can do it too, using my 10 step formula that anyone can do, if I did it, so can you? And it's like, Yeah, but that person in the ad might have contacts, networks, they might have had $50,000 to invest in their first Facebook ads campaign or whatever. And your business just may not have the right infrastructure to be able to actually leverage. The mastermind might be amazing. But if your business isn't ready for that kind of information, or contacts or support, then it's actually not going to be beneficial for you. And I think a lot of business owners get lured into those really kind of sort of spiritual and it's going to be a transformation. And a lot of them were very fancy hats I've noticed in their ad, which are very appealing, who doesn't want to look that cool in a hat? But yeah, I mean, actually bringing it back down to: Okay, well, my present business is currently bringing in $40,000, or $80,000, or $100,000, or $200,000? What would the best case scenario from this kind of mastermind experience be?
You know, and how is that actually going to help me get to my next stage. And I imagine that doing a course like yours, or mine, where people are actually setting themselves up with information and education that they can actually use, regardless of the size of their business, it's that it's not just foundational, but it is transformational knowing how to run a campaign in your program. It is transformational, knowing how to read your numbers and how to actually make a business plan, which is what people learn in my program. That can actually get you to the point that you're ready for a mastermind, because you've already learned everything that gets you to that level.
Mia Fileman 6:17
Such a good point. The other thing with masterminds, as you were talking that came to mind is that it's often not very specific. Yeah. So it's like, what is it about? What are we discussing, it's not a course, it's not a program with a specific set of tangible outcomes, you know, at the end of this, you will know how to manage your finances better, and how to prepare business statements, versus, we're just gonna get together once a month and have a good old yarn.
Fiona Johnson 6:46
Yeah, so true. And I think it's really interesting. Also, like, I'm seeing a lot of similarities between the multi-level marketing business model, and this kind of online course creator model, in that there's nothing sort of wrong in inverted commas with, you know, social selling, which is kind of what those two things are. But when you're selling, you've got to think about what is this person actually selling me. So with a lot of online courses, the person is teaching you how to create an online course, which is what they did. And now you know how to build an online course. And then you could teach others how to build an online course. And then they could teach others to build an online course, What exactly is being bought? Like, what, what sort of education is transferring? It's nothing, it's literally a multi level marketing of the exact same thing just been copied and pasted all over the place.
So if what you're wanting to do is go and learn how to launch an online course, by all means, go and do a mastermind that's going to teach you how to launch an online course. But if you just want to make your business better, or you want to earn more money, or you want to get better at delivering one to one services, you need to look at the educator that you're signing up with and say, "Does this person do anything other than teach people how to do what they're teaching me to do?" Like, where's the sort of foundation behind all of that?
Mia Fileman 8:18
It's mining the miners.
Fiona Johnson 8:19
Yeah.
Mia Fileman 8:20
And a good analogy to consider is those like junk bonds that caused the global financial crisis in the US where they were just doing like derivatives, where they were just like, packaging up thin air into products. And it's like, it wasn't actually real. And they were just selling gonna Credit Default Swaps and Derivatives. It's all beyond my knowledge. But basically, it was just like, inventing products that they could sell. And it caused, you know, a crash of our financial systems, because nothing of value was being traded absolutely nothing. So very, very good point.
There's a part two to this conversation about non traditional business models. Play the next episode to continue hearing from Fiona Johnson, a business mentor, finance coach and virtual CFO.
Thank you, you listened right up until the end. So why not hit that subscribe button and keep the good marketing rolling. Podcast reviews are like warm hugs, and they're also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia Fileman, on Instagram or LinkedIn and feel free to send me a message. I'm super friendly.
