Got Marketing unpacks campaigns, marketing news and what actually sticks
Mia Feilman: Most marketing has the shelf life of a trending sound. This is Got Marketing, where we unpack campaigns, marketing news and what actually sticks. Hello, friend, and welcome back to Got Marketing. In the same month that Bets is closing 20 of its remaining 35 stores, the luggage brand July has opened a 250 square metre, uh, flagship store in Melbourne. Designed more like a gallery than a conventional shop. July was a digital first brand, yet it is investing heavily in physical retail now. So the depth of retail storey doesn't really stack up. So to have this conversation with me today, I'm bringing back one of my marketing friends, Andrea Andrick, who is a marketing consultant based in Melbourne and one of your favourite guests. Welcome back to GOT Marketing.
Andrea Andrick: Thank you so much for having me back. It's actually so exciting to be asked back because I know how many pitches you get.
Mia Feilman: I get so many pitches and like bad pitches. I get bad pitches.
Andrea Andrick: Well, this is going to be a good one. I think people are going to enjoy this chat.
There are so many traditional physical retail locations closing and online E comm stores opening
Mia Feilman: Okay, so tell me straight up, why can July justify opening stores while 134-year-old company like Betz is closing them?
Andrea Andrick: You know, it's so interesting because this isn't even an isolated case. There are so many of these traditionally physical retail locations closing and uh, traditionally online E comm stores opening retail locations. And honestly I think it's for a very exciting reason and that is because they have invested in the brand work and the community building and all of the stuff that they've been doing online. And then the retail experience is like an extension of that and a sort of legitimization of the business. Like, hey, now we're a real brick and mortar store, you can come and visit. So I think that a lot of the brands who are closing, and there have been many over the last 18 months, a lot of those brands like who Link Craft are uh, closing locations. Glue Barbecues Galore has gone into administration. Miller's, Katie's, Rivers, Rockman's, all of these stores that I think we, maybe our generation kind of grew up just seeing everywhere they had really big retail presence in shopping centres, in strips and a lot of them are now shutting a lot of retail locations. I mean, you know, the economy is what it is, retail is expensive. I understand that whole play, but what's really interesting is exactly like you said, it's, it's not actually that retail is dying because you have all of these brands opening up. And I think that is just a testament to the equity that they've been able to build in their brand online.
Mia Feilman: So maybe it isn't actually a retail problem, maybe it's that this economy is exposing brand problems that were already there amongst these, like, legacy brands.
Andrea Andrick: Right, Yeah, I totally agree. And I actually think as a marketer, this is super exciting for me. Not that I want people to close their businesses.
Mia Feilman: Just. Careful caveat.
Andrea Andrick: Yeah, just. Just a caveat there. I don't want retailers to be going out of business. But what's exciting to me is that the pressure and I guess the need now to be more creative, to be more daring, to have, uh, more of a strategic backbone and to do things differently is certainly there. Because I don't know about you, but I don't tend to just go about strolling in shopping centres as much as I did maybe when I was a teenager. So if I'm going somewhere to buy something, it's actually quite intentional. And so then everything that we do in marketing, whether it's a campaign or our business as usual, I think needs to be more competitive, more creative, more interesting to get people out of their homes and to get them into those retail spaces.
Mia Feilman: Yeah, I think it's particularly interesting for people like me who live regionally. Like, I don't have a shopping, uh, centre, really, that I can go to. We have a shopping centre in Cairns. It's got a seed, it's got a country road, but it's definitely not the shopping destination of Australia. So, like, I come to Melbourne and it's like, where do I want to go? Which stores do I seek out? And it's spared footwear. It's Mecca. It's these stores that have built these cult brand followings and equity where there's, like, there's really a lot of love between me and these brands now.
Andrea Andrick: Yeah, I agree. And it's kind of like it's no longer enough just to chuck up some product pictures on your Instagram and call it, you know, social media marketing. It's kind of the same in the retail space. It's no longer enough just to have the storefront and expect that people are going to come just because you're there. There has to be sort of a bit more of an impetus and a reason for people to go. And I think really the best way for brands to build that is in that online space and then translating it through. But you know what? I think the point that you made earlier is actually really, really, really pertinent, which is that that kind of mediocrity or that kind of, uh. It's there kind of. We're doing our, uh, thing it's really difficult for brands to coast in 2026 when the competition is so high. And I think marketers should be excited about that because it requires creativity.
Mia Feilman: Yeah. So you're saying that you believe that these closures are less about structural issues with their business, their supply chain, and, uh, it's actually just a marketing failure.
Andrea Andrick: I mean, I think a little bit of both, to be perfectly honest with you. But out of all of those brands that I named before Mia, can you think of a single campaign that any of them have done recently that's stuck in your mind that's been interesting or creative? Because I can't.
Mia Feilman: No. Not when I think about Rivers, Millers, Betts, Whitner. No, none.
Andrea Andrick: Yeah.
Mia Feilman: So marketing's job is to create future demand and relevance. And so this idea that, oh, uh, we've got heritage and we can lean on this heritage, that's not really a strategy. Right. You can't spend 10 years harvesting familiarity and foot traffic and then be shocked when both of those start disappearing because all you've done is sort of harvested, you haven't planted, you haven't invested back into that fertile soil. And I, um, feel like there's a Byron Sharp point here, too. This podcast is quickly becoming. Every episode I talk about Byron Sharp.
Andrea Andrick: Whatever.
Mia Feilman: I'm, um, a marketer. Get over it. Heritage can create mental availability, but mental availability doesn't guarantee immortality. Being known is useful, of course it is. Like, brand awareness is useful, but also when I think about Millers and I think about Rivers, it's the shop that my mum used to go to, and that's not very useful to me. I don't want to shop where my mum used to shop.
Andrea Andrick: Yeah.
Mia Feilman: So how much protection does heritage give you if nobody under the age of 40 has a reason to care?
Andrea Andrick: Very little. And, uh, the. The interesting thing is, I could stop there, but I think there's a little bit of a tie in to the conversation we had last time on the podcast about that familiarity, heritage angle. But again, I don't think it's something that we can just rest our laurels on and coast on. Because, yeah, as you said, it's like, we know. We know these brands, we know of them, but we're not compelled by them currently. And I think sometimes it can feel a little bit like marketing advice is, like, obsessed with millennials or obsessed with what Gen Z are doing. And a lot of these, let's call them heritage brands would say, well, that's not our audience. We don't want to speak to that. Person. We don't care about how we need to reach them. But the conversation that I have with a lot of clients is if we're not cultivating younger audiences, your business is going to end with your current demographic, your current audience, your current customer. And there's no brand longevity in that.
I'm trying to think of a heritage brand that has reinvented themselves
So I think it's so important for brands to kind of, you know, okay, great, you've got the heritage, you've got the history, but what are you actually doing in the present day?
Mia Feilman: That's such a good point. I'm trying to think of an example of a heritage brand that has done a really good job reinventing themselves for a new generation. Is there anyone that comes to mind?
Andrea Andrick: Well, I think there are a couple that you named before, like Country Road and Seed. They have been around forever, but they're still very relevant. Like there's still a, uh, very big market for that. Brand Bonds, another favourite of ours is such a good example of that.
Mia Feilman: Love those two examples. But also R.M. williams.
Andrea Andrick: Yes, yes.
Mia Feilman: Such a good example, like, almost gives me goosebumps how great of a job RM Williams has done being relevant to the next generation.
Andrea Andrick: Yeah, I agree. So it's not impossible. There are lots of brands and I think what's required in that environment is the trust in the marketing team and the willingness to do something different and the. I don't want to call it being brave because, you know, but just being brave to. To try new things, try something different and understand that that is what's going to keep your business alive.
Mia Feilman: Yeah. And the willingness to, to a certain degree, sacrifice some of your existing audience who may look at the new direction that the marketing and the brand and the campaign is taking and say, this doesn't feel relevant to me anymore. This feels like they're trying to actively appeal to a new audience and that's okay. Like, we can't be all things to all people. Holding onto the last remnants of your audience is not a winning business strategy.
Andrea Andrick: No, and actually that's a really good point because in a lot of ways strategy is what we also say no to, particularly now when there's so many things that we could be doing. I think for these brands, it's like, well, what are we, what are we going to let go of? What are we going to keep?
Mia Feilman: Yeah.
Is the middle disappearing because Australians haven't collectively stopped spending
Okay. So you wrote another great substack on this topic and you mentioned that you thought that the middle is disappearing. Is the middle disappearing because Australians haven't collectively stopped spending? It seems like who is spending and where the money is going has changed so can you speak to that a little bit?
Andrea Andrick: Yeah, absolutely. So it's an interesting concept, the middle. And I think actually the idea of the middle has changed as well. But what I'm seeing is there's a lot of spending in the luxury, you know, luxury space and then there's a lot of spending in the value or, uh, the little treat space, if you will. And very quick side note and hypothesis, I think this is why the beauty industry is actually thriving at the moment, because it falls into the little treat space. But yet we're still seeing older generations, potentially, you know, people who no longer have mortgages spending big. We're seeing younger generations maintain spending but shift where they're spending and how. And so I think even if I look at like my friends and uh, we are in our, uh, mid to late 30s, it's like, I don't want to go to an average, uh, restaurant, for example. I would rather save money and go treat myself to a really nice fine dining or I'll just stay home. That's kind of the shift that's happening. It's people are either saving up for something big or they're treating themselves with, with little treats or, you know, they're buying value where they can so that they can afford the luxury. But I think also what we consider mid price or mid market has probably changed for a lot of people.
Mia Feilman: Yeah, A uh, couple of side notes. It's so interesting seeing my parents generation be tight asses their entire lives and now they've gotten to like 70 and they're realising they can't take any of this money with them. So they're spending like crazy on trips and on things that they would never have bought. Like my parents would never have bought a fancy car and then my dad has gone and bought this ostentatious car. It's just so, um, like, what are you doing? So I think that you definitely are making a good point. I'm not sure that the price middle is disappearing because I don't think that like a $300 suitcase like July, or a, uh, $200 Kvari dress or a, uh, $50 skincare product is inherently doomed, even though it doesn't sort of fit in that neat, small treat and, you know, luxury purchase. I feel like, you know, and this is the whole topic of the episode, I feel like the mediocre middle has dropped out where consumers are still willing to spend that amount, but they need a much stronger reason to.
Andrea Andrick: Yeah, I agree with that. I think there will always be, if the brand has built that value, not in the value for money, but in that brand value, you know, connection, community value, um, wanting to align yourself with that brand value, they can sell a $300 suitcase or a $200 dress or a $600 dress, you know. But what's interesting to me too, with some of those examples is that for a lot of people, maybe that $40 skincare product is actually now considered a luxury product. You know, whereas maybe five to ten years ago you would have gone, ah, $, uh, 40 skincare. Yeah, like that's my middle, middle range. So that's an interesting conversation too. But, uh, to your point, I think it's really competitive and so any sort of coasting in the middle just isn't going to cut it these days.
Mia Feilman: Yeah, that's a really good point about. You're right. If I objectively think about a $40 skin care product now, I do think it's more expensive since buying a house this year and knowing how much I have to put into renovations and it all just feels a little bit unnecessary unless there's a really compelling reason to buy that. I also think that this whole de influencing trend has really helped people understand that luxury is not really luxury. And so people don't want to go and spend $3,000 on a Chanel bag that's actually not very well made. Like it's not as well made as we expect it's going to be. You know, you imagine this sweet little man in Italy hand sewing the Chanel bag and it's made in the same factory in China, uh, as what's that middle of the road brand handbag like Sansia the label or Strathberry. Do you see those TikTok videos that they do? Like they unstitch the bag, they pull it all apart and they tell you how grandma's so obsessed with those.
Andrea Andrick: Oh my gosh. My husband watches this guy on YouTube who cuts shoes open and he talks about like the quality of the leather and stuff.
Marketers need to feel more certain about the things that they buy
And so two things just popped into my mind as you were speaking. And one is that we just have a lot more access to knowing, seeing and, and hearing how things are made. And kind of that peak behind the curtain is a kind of double edged sword for some brands if they don't really know how to, how to make that play. And the other thing that I was thinking of is really for us, for uh, a lot of people in the middle, upper middle class, and I don't like talking about class when it comes to this, but unfortunately that's, that's how People orient themselves. But you might go, oh, I don't really need that $40, um, lipstick this month, but maybe I'll get it next month, depending on, you know, whatever. But a lot of the market, particularly younger people, that's like, that $40 could be the difference between them paying their rent or getting lunch that day or not. So I think it's always helpful to kind of keep that, that spectrum in mind, particularly if your brand is wanting to attract younger audiences or get people into the fold.
Mia Feilman: Yeah. I also really loved what you said about how $40 means different things to different people, because I think we really confuse value with value for money. So you could realistically charge, as you said, $600 for a dress if. If there's value in that purchase, whether that value is emotional, whether it is about status, whether it is about quality, whether it is about confidence, whether it is about style. Simply wanting the bloody thing is value to someone. And you might go, I can't believe she spent $600 on that dress. And somebody else would think I would pay double for that because it brought me so much joy and it's valuable to me.
Andrea Andrick: Yeah, absolutely.
Mia Feilman: So customers are buying fewer things, but they're needing to feel more certain about the things that they buy, Right?
Andrea Andrick: Yeah.
Mia Feilman: How, uh, do marketers navigate this? What does someone need to believe about themselves to buy from you?
Andrea Andrick: I feel like a broken record sometimes, but I think it's just really about deeply knowing who you're for and who you're not for. And, uh, there's a lot of ways we can do that. I mean, I love to nerd out on the research of the conversations people are having in particular spaces about particular products. I think it's really just understanding what is it, uh, that you want to be known for? You know, like they say your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. And for me, when it comes to thinking about customers, audiences, it's how do you want them to feel when they're out in that world having those conversations about whether this dress is a good value for money for them. So that's kind of the caveat that for them, and, you know, you're not going to be for everyone. And I think that's actually really good.
Mia Feilman: Yeah.
The July flagship store in Melbourne calls into question what is a physical store
Don't you think it's, uh, so interesting, the July flagship store, like, they're really called into question, like, what actually is a physical store for now?
Andrea Andrick: Yeah.
Mia Feilman: Is it for people to walk in and shop, or is it for something else? So this flagship store in Melbourne has like hand poured terrazzo marble, commissioned frescoes, custom joinery. It has been presented as like an architectural experience rather than simply somewhere you walk into and um, you, you know, conduct commerce. Don't you think that luggage is such an interesting category for physical expansion? Because you don't purchase luggage every day. It's got a very long inter purchase interval. Like I would purchase luggage once every couple of years. It's really easy to ship um, because it's, it should be light and also it's luggage, it's designed for shipping. So it's kind of the exact category that you would think, or I would have thought lived online. It could just live online. It didn't need to live in store. It's not a mattress you want to sleep on before you purchase. So if E Commerce, if we believe the myth that E commerce was designed to kill physical retail, why does an E Commerce luggage brand need 15 stores?
Andrea Andrick: It's such an interesting one, isn't it? I think first of all beautiful experience. Right. And it's that uh, that tension of it doesn't need to be, but it exists because it brings something to the brand. Now if I think about July as a brand and their positioning, I think it makes complete sense that this is what their store would be, would look like, would feel like mhm. And it's just kind of yeah, that real life extension. But to your point of like why would they need to open a retail store? I think as much as we are in the online world and as much as we spend a lot of time there, there is still something to be said about the kind of authority of traditional media, if you will. Right. So every person who, well not every person, but a lot of people who have amassed big online followings are still chasing the book deal to legitimise that, you know, are still chasing the earned media of being invited to you know, a studio, a TV studio. And the same I think could be said for retail. It's like there's billions of websites, anyone can open an E comm store these days. And so it's that pendulum swing of like, well we are actually legitimate and here, here is the physical proof of that. And then you get there and it's this beautiful experience and it just builds on the brand, it builds on that, that relationship.
Mia Feilman: That's such a good point. You're so right. That legitimising piece and the authority pace, like it's a flex, right?
Andrea Andrick: Like oh yeah.
Mia Feilman: What a signal that our uh, business is doing really well, that we are opening a uh, 250 square metre store when everyone else is closing, like, it's a pretty strong signal. But, um, in July's case, I've been following the brand for years. I'm die hard obsessed. I met one of the co founders at an event last year and I completely fangirled all over him. It was awkward for him, not so much for me. But I feel like in July's case, this store isn't really a distribution channel, it's a brand channel. It's the, uh, the physical embodiment, like you said, of this brand coming to life. It's much more experiential than it is about retail.
Andrea Andrick: Oh, absolutely. And what you were saying before about it being a flex, I mean, have you seen commercial rents lately? They're crazy through the roof.
How do you measure brand equity when your brand exists online and offline
And you also reminded me of another brand that I love, that I've been following for a long time. Mary People, the Colourful gumboot company. I even know their tagline. Um, they, uh, famously built their brand on never discounting and they have just opened up a store in the very heart of Melbourne, cbd, in a little laneway right next to bed there, actually. And, uh, it is an amazing marker of success to be able to say, hey, look, we're doing really well, we're opening a store.
Mia Feilman: Yeah. What's interesting though is how do you measure this when your brand exists online and it exists offline? Like, how do you even begin to measure the ROI of someone walking in, touching the luggage, leaving and then buying it online three weeks later? What UTM code can you like, embed in that?
Andrea Andrick: I actually have a bit of a counter, uh, to that, which is something I've been thinking about a little bit recently. And that is, do we have to measure it? Do, uh, we have to have a line item in our P and L or whatever spreadsheet that says this is directly related to this, you know? And when it comes to brand marketing, you're never going to be able to measure all of this. And I think as marketers over the last decade, because of social media, because of things being online, we've become obsessed with attribution. I can't even tell you how many conversations I've had about this. But now it's going to be harder. Not just physical, like retail, e comic, but even just in the online space, it's going to be harder to attribute whether people are finding you through an LLM search or Google or social or. It's all kind of mixing and melding together. And I think Roi, for me, least, when it comes to those channels is more than a dollar value. For me, it would be the brand experience, the positive anecdote that you and I are having on this podcast or that I'm gonna go and tell my friend, hey, I had this amazing experience that brand equity, like you can't really measure it. And that's what the, the retail experience I think brings. Of course you can measure the in store sales versus the online sales and all of that, but I think there's something a little bit more, how do I say, human about it, right? And you can't measure that and you can't buy that if you create a beautiful brand and a fantastic experience. I don't think you can put a dollar value on that.
Mia Feilman: No, I agree completely. I just think that there is people, marketers like you and I who know that. We know that to be true. We believe that to our core. And then there are going to be sceptical general managers, CFOs who are like, everything that you just said, Andrea, sounds like to me and fluff. And if you can't measure it, then it, you know, um, it's not worth doing. And this is just marketers wanting to do creative things, but, you know, it doesn't have any real return on investment. And I would go out on a limb to say that those people probably work at Miller's and are experiencing the pain of those decisions now.
Andrea Andrick: Oh man. Uh, that was a really great tie in, I just have to say. But it is very narrow minded thinking in my opinion. Now I love data. I love measuring a thing. I love it. I love a survey. Side note, bit disappointed with the census. But anyway, um, so I'm not over here saying, well, we should throw out all of that and just think about, you know, brand equity and. But there has to be a balance. You have to know what you're measuring and why. And to your point, brand marketing is that long play and the brands who understand that will stick around for a lot longer. And the ones who are so like narrowly focused on what's the numbers in and out, they might get to a point and then we're having this conversation about them.
Mia Feilman: But also data tells you what happened in the past. It can't predict the future. So there is no model that can reliably predict how well this July store is going to work. Even if they could pull the data from Mecca. And they were like, okay, Mecca opened a flagship store in Melbourne. This was the economic return of that. You could make some assumptions and some deductions about what a July flagship store would do in Melbourne. But we're talking about beauty versus luggage. We're talking about two different brands with two different audiences and two different budgets. So you actually don't know how something is going to perform until you bloody do it. Which is why marketers keep banging on about testing. Like this is test for July. What's going to be interesting is what happens if the store needs to close. Everything that you said earlier about how this is a flex and this is like uh, an authority piece and this is a legitimization of the brand, is that all going to come back and punch them in the face if the store uh, only lasts two years and then it has to close even if their online e commerce brand is still flying?
Andrea Andrick: Yeah, interesting. I guess time will tell. But I like experimenting and I think I very much agree with that. Marketing is a lot about experimenting and I think it also comes down to like how they play it right. If they go, well, this was always intended as a two year project or a pop up or whatever and that's totally fine. And I think if there are brands who are maybe considering it but aren't, you know, going to open a full on retail location, maybe a pop up is a good idea to kind of test the waters, see what happens and do that little experiment without like the full, you know, blown retail step.
Mia Feilman: So the hand poured terrazzo.
Andrea Andrick: Oh, uh, yeah, totally. Maybe not quite so far but, but anyway, I think whatever you do, if you do it in a way that like makes sense for you and for what you're wanting to achieve. And I might put some noses out of joint here, but also for me that word return on investment, the return can be something that is not a dollar. Like the return could be the brand awareness, it could be the, you know, whatever it is. So I think when we're measuring, even when we're measuring things online like organic social versus paid versus email, the return on the organic social is the awareness, is the people talking about you. I mean I have a lot of people come to me and say hi, I really love your content. And I'm like, well you could engage with it. Um, but you know, like it's, but they're thinking and talking about it, right? Yeah. So that, that's also part of the return.
Let's talk about experiential retail for a minute
Mia Feilman: Yeah. Let's talk about experiential retail for a minute because that's what we're saying July has done. It's not just retail, it's an experience. Has that term, um, become a bit meaningless? Has it just is the like really basic Bitch interpretation of that, that you get, you know, a DJ mixing tunes on a Friday afternoon in your store. Is that expensive experiential retail?
Andrea Andrick: No, I don't think so. I mean, look, people are going to do that. And what's really interesting is I think that like, uh, the millennial Gen Z kind of experiences, like, have you seen how many like daytime raves there are now? And like cafes, doing DJs in the morning. I think we want something different, but I don't think that that is like the blanket. This is what we're now doing and calling it experiential. And. And again, if it doesn't feel like it's brand aligned and it doesn't make sense for your brand, then why would you, you know, I think it's got to be something different. And the brands that we're talking about, July and you know, Mecca you mentioned as well, who have this amazing experience in their store, they're doing things that make sense for them. You know, as you said before, not everyone's going to have the hand poured terrazzo because it doesn't make sense for them.
Mia Feilman: Yeah.
Andrea Andrick: So I think it would be lazy to do something like that and call it experiential.
Mia Feilman: Yeah. A couple of things I feel like, as you said, it makes sense for those brands. So for me, the July store is like stepping into the Mediterranean. And so it really is just about not going to Greece this year. And I'm really sad about it because all my feedback, my Facebook feed of all my family, they're all over there and I'm here. But I can go to the July store and sort of get a taste of that. Mecca is just a fun day with your girlfriends. Like, go, uh, have a coffee. Isn't there a florist in there? Is that a thing? Did I make that up?
Andrea Andrick: There is. There's everything. And now there's even like the best way to experience the Mecca store. Like they've cultivated this, they've built it with that in mind. So you start at the top floor, you have a coffee, you might get a facial, you might get a mask massage. Yes. There's a florist, there's makeup services, there's everything that you love about Mecca, plus on this like massive scale. So it is inviting for people to want to go there.
Mia Feilman: Yeah.
Andrea Andrick: And to brand it as a, uh, hey, this is an experience we're doing together.
Mia Feilman: But maybe we've like overcomplicated experiential retail. Maybe experiential retail is just as simple as staff who know the product and they give a shit. So I'm about to throw myself to the wolves here again. Every time I mention Cookie, I get in trouble. But maybe Cookie could have gotten away with their, uh, very limited size range of only size 6 to 14. If, when you walked into the store, the staff were really kind and really approachable. I feel that because in tandem with the size exclusivity and the rude stuff, now the size exclusivity has a really sharp edge to it. It's got a meanness to it that people would have potentially forgiven if, when you walked into the store, everyone was super friendly and they were just like, oh, like, uh, no, sorry, we don't have size 16. And made some sort of joke about that. But really, like the joke was on them, not on the person walking in wanting the bigger size.
Andrea Andrick: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look at the stores that you love, like the little boutiques and the small businesses that make these shopping strips what they are and give them the character. You go in there and you're greeted warmly and, uh, you know, people aren't pushy and, uh, even if the range isn't there, you know, there's something else. I work with businesses like that a lot and that in store experience is so important. And as you said, it doesn't have to be this whole shebang, it can just be. This is a welcoming and nice place to go. And I know about Cookeye. I've seen all of the memes and the videos about, like, how, how you get treated when you walk in there and over time. We've been having this conversation for a while now and, like, I've never been a shopper of theirs, but now I definitely won't be. So there is something to be said for that too.
Mia Feilman: Yeah. You know what's really sad though, is those boutiques that you mentioned, they're disappearing. They're going. If you walk down a, uh, shopping strip now, all of those fashion boutiques are being replaced with barbers, tattoo parlours, Pilates, beauty nail bars, dessert shops. So I feel like the retail landscape on the streets is fast becoming a map of what the Internet can't give you, what the Internet can't deliver. It can't buff your nails, it can't cut your hair, it can't help you eat frozen yoghurt with your friend at 8:00pm uh, are you seeing that too? That, like, shopping strips are becoming less about products and more about services?
Andrea Andrick: Yeah, yeah, that's such an interesting point. I am actually, but to me that's preferable. Than having a bunch of chain stores open up as well. So I think when we talk about this, maybe sometimes those retail closures aren't a bad thing, because why should we have a hundred insert brand name. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus stores. Maybe we should have more diversity. And to the point of the experience, and wanting to get out there and wanting to intentionally go and do something. All of those businesses that you just named for me equal that, you know.
Mia Feilman: Yeah.
Andrea Andrick: They're either, uh, you're going with a friend to a restaurant or a cafe or an experience, or you're going intentionally to get a haircut, get your nails done, whatever it is. And I think that's a net positive for me in a way. And also, if we talk about what do Gen Zed want, what do younger generations want, the real life stuff. And that's what it is. And you know, you can't have a chat GPT prompt do any of that. So that's part of the experience.
Shops and strips are closing all the time in Melbourne because of Amazon
Like that in itself is part of the experience, the business.
Mia Feilman: Yeah, I'm with you. I'm less. I care less about the mix and I care much more that we just don't have dead retail strips because Amazon is shipping all of this to people's houses in two hours. And then as a result, Chapel street has just died this sad death. And ghost towns and CBDs that are just empty shops after empty shops, restaurants that are closing, boutiques that are closing. Like, it's so depressing. It's like, I feel like we're all being pushed indoors when that happens. And I'm so grateful that I live in a place where we live outdoors all the time in nature. But, like, I'm from Melbourne and it's like, when the weather's shitty in Melbourne and shops and strips are closing all the time, what are Melburnians supposed to do? You're not going to go sit on the beach, watch the sunset at 5 o' clock when it's dark?
Andrea Andrick: No, you're definitely not. It's an interesting one. I was having a conversation with somebody in the hospitality industry and they were saying that, like, they've been in industry for decades and they were saying that, like, those first two weeks of Melbourne winter, complete, dead, like nobody's going anywhere. But then we kind of acclimatised, uh, to it and we go, right, we gotta go. But where are we going to go? That's the question. And that is, I agree with you. I don't want a whole bunch of things just for the sake of it. I think a lot of this conversation that we're having today boils down to, are we doing things just for the sake of it, or are we intentionally building experiences, been building brands? We as consumers, are we just passively consuming or, or, you know, buying things for the sake of it, or we actually making a plan to go somewhere and do something that's kind of the. The precipice, I think, or maybe the flip that we're on right now.
Mia Feilman: Yeah.
Let's quickly talk about frozen yoghurt, because, like, every second store sells it
Let's quickly talk about frozen yoghurt, because, like, every second store is frozen yoghurt. And, like, do you think this is gonna last? Is this a fad or is this a, uh. Is this just a bubble? The next iteration of bubble tea?
Andrea Andrick: Well, spending time with your friends will never change, but frozen yoghurts may come and go. Mia. Yeah, I don't know. Personally, hospitality is an interesting beast to me. I, like, there's been kind of waves of what things are interested in, like, what's the next thing you know, is it matcha? Is it frozen yoghurt? Is it pancakes? Is it cheesecake? Is it, you know, whatever? Uh, I think there's always kind of these, these waves of what, what's trending, whether that's hospitality, whether that's whatever, retail experience. But the point of it all being that you've got to create something that people actually want to come to and want to engage with.
Mia Feilman: Yeah. Don't you think people are just so fascinating? You know, we're all about eating healthy and no processed foods and getting right amount of protein and not having too much sugar. But then we will happily go to a yoghurt bar and put 3,000 calories on our yoghurt. And that's fine, that's fine. We will drink 600 calories in a bubble tea, no problem. Um, at cha time. But, um, but, like, we have villainized ham or like, salami. How dare you have salami. Disgusting. But go put sour worms on your yoti. No problem.
Andrea Andrick: That's so funny. I mean, there was an ad a while ago. Sometimes, uh, these things just stick in my brain. There was an ad a while ago and they were doing like a time traveller, and every decade he was coming back into these people's dining or kitchen where they were having their breakfast. And then, like, he'd come back and be like, don't eat eggs, they're evil. And then like, 10 years later, actually, eggs are really fine. And then 10 years later, I was like, no, they're actually evil. Uh, so, yeah, you can't win. I think, though, you mentioned de influencing before and that, I think is a pertinent point when it comes to this whole conversation. Because it's like a lot of us are just so tired of optimising and over optimising and this and that and fibre and protein and it's like that frozen yoghurt with the worms on it. That's your reprieve, you know, And I'm a really big believer that people buy based on emotion and then use logic later on to justify that purchase. And if we're talking about that, it's the emotion of that is the fun, the fun that you're gonna have with your friends, the connection you're gonna have, you know, so. So for me, that's like number one is the. The emotion is tied to the value of the experience.
Mia Feilman: Yeah, I love that so much.
Where does this leave retail? Oh, look, let me look into
All right, let's wrap things up. Where does this leave retail?
Andrea Andrick: Oh, look, let me look into my magic eight ball. Um, I don't know. I think where this leaves retail is probably in a bit of pain right now and then we're going to see how things are going to shake out over the next two to five years. But I think what's going to happen is exactly what we're saying. And that is a lot of these stores that have been coasting or have been kind of middle of the road in what they offer back will potentially close and things will come and replace them. Like, things will come into those spaces. I hope for all of our sakes that we may get out of our houses, but I think a lot of brands have to now contend with, are we letting down the online side? Are we letting down the retail side? Is exponential growth actually even the goal, can we do less and do it better? And I hope, I really hope that a lot of brands hear this podcast and, um, think about it a little bit because we don't have to keep doing more and more and more. We can just do what we do better.
Now the barriers to entry for product based brands are lower
Mia Feilman: Yeah. You started this episode with a lot of excitement about this retail landscape. And I echo that feeling because I feel like now the barriers to entry for product based brands are, ah, lower. Like fate. The label started as an Internet brand. It started with a solo founder who was an influencer, uh, who built this cult following and now she has retail stores. You don't have to go back too far in history to think that the retail wasn't accessible to you because you couldn't afford a retail store. Now brands can invest in their online presence first. And once that has built up to a critical mass. They can have the capital to invest into a retail store. And we're seeing lots of examples of those brands making that transition. So I think it is a really exciting time for people who have a really good product, who invest in brand, who invest in brand storey, to then end up having these really successful retail empires. Because they did that online first.
Andrea Andrick: Yeah. And there's no amount of marketing that can fix a, uh, bad product, bad customer service and bad experience. You know, I really believe that. And if you invest in those, I would say, really foundational, back to basics things to your audience, then, yeah, you will be successful. And I am so excited to see that and I am so excited to cheer those brands on because they have done that work.
Mia Feilman: Yeah, totally.
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Thank you once again, Andrea, for joining me on the show and I really appreciate how generous you've been with your ideas today.
Andrea Andrick: I love it. Thank you so much for having me.
Mia Feilman: Thank you. You listened all the way to the end. If you're enjoying GoT marketing, make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss what's next. Podcast reviews are like warm hugs and one of the best ways to support a small business. You can connect with me, mia Feilman, on LinkedIn and Instagram and I always welcome your feedback and questions for future episodes.
