Gerri Florence (00:09.294)
We're back for another episode of Chemistry Read. And it wouldn't be a podcast for millennial women if we didn't do a deep dive into some 90s rom-com classics. But this week, Mia is away. So we reached out to our beautiful chemistry lab community on Facebook and asked if anybody wanted to join us. And very kindly, Ellen, one of our lab partners, has joined me today on the podcast. So hi, Ellen.
Ellen Hooper (00:34.672)
Hello, thanks for having me.
Gerri Florence (00:36.728)
Very exciting. Do you want to tell our lovely listeners why you came on today?
Ellen Hooper (00:43.108)
Yes, so hi, I'm Ellen. I'm a mum of two and a purveyor of romantic comedies. And I really, really wanted to talk about my favorite movie of all time. Maybe it's embarrassing, it's my favorite movie of all time. but Ten Things I Heard About You is just such a sticky, informative, I don't know, kind of like
Ellen Hooper (01:11.29)
What do they call what's that s coming of age? I'll I'll do that again from the start. It's just such like a sticky and informative coming of age movie that was such a big part of my friendship group as a teenager.
Gerri Florence (01:14.6)
coming of age. Go ahead.
Gerri Florence (01:30.562)
Yes, how often sorry, go ahead.
Ellen Hooper (01:34.736)
And has somewhat stood the test of time.
Gerri Florence (01:37.034)
Somewhat. Something we will explore today. I would consider it a cult classic. Would you put it in that category?
Ellen Hooper (01:42.914)
Mm. I think so. and it's interesting because I was I'm really lucky one of my coaching clients is Hannah Ferguson of Cheek Media. And when I'm coaching people, I'm very professional. So I just want to I want to just put that out there. But sometimes yeah
Gerri Florence (02:01.678)
Let's ask Hannah what she thinks.
Ellen Hooper (02:06.914)
But then it's the in between, right? It's like I was like, I really admire Hannah. I think she's amazing. She has a live tour coming up, if anyone needs something to to cultural outing in October. And she'd posted on Instagram that Julia Styles had followed her.
Gerri Florence (02:09.07)
Gerri Florence (02:23.48)
Really?
Ellen Hooper (02:24.784)
Think maybe commented on a reel. And I just remember it's it's so long. I've been married for like 15 years, I think, something like that. And it's so long since I've had that experience of like crafting a carefully crafted message because I really wanted to talk to Hannah about those things I hated about you. But I really wanted her to like me. And I remember I work, I actually deep researched finding the right gif of Julia Styles dancing on the table.
Gerri Florence (02:27.556)
my gosh.
Ellen Hooper (02:53.772)
at Bogey Laurenstein's party. Anyway, so that's like the l that's the closest I've been to like
Gerri Florence (02:53.999)
yes. Iconic.
Gerri Florence (03:01.784)
Yeah, Julia Styles. That's your You've got
Ellen Hooper (03:02.32)
Text flirting sounds wrong. But just being like very interested in how I come across via text message for a really long time. Me and me and Julie we could I could probably get her a message.
Gerri Florence (03:07.99)
Is this is this your six degrees of separation to Julia Stiles? Is that what you think? My my best mate that I've been best friends with since first year uni, both 18 years, has not listened to this podcast yet because she doesn't watch TV or movies or anything like that. We're very yin and yang. and I text her today and said, I'm doing an episode on Ten Things Ahead About You.
Ellen Hooper (03:24.646)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (03:29.243)
Yeah.
Gerri Florence (03:35.842)
And I feel like this may be the one time that you listen to the podcast. And she replied, Julia Stiles was my hotmail hotmail password for about ten years. So she's because of this movie. Yeah. Yes.
Ellen Hooper (03:45.606)
Whoa, massive. Yes. So and the reason I was telling about Hannah is because Hannah's 10 years younger than me. And so the fact that it's kind of like a seminal text for her is very interesting to me. I was 10 when this movie came out. I think you were 14, you were saying. But I have another mentor who's 10 years older, and she was like, that movie was terrible and I couldn't wait for it to end. So there's something about like
Gerri Florence (03:52.835)
Yeah.
Gerri Florence (03:56.887)
Yes. Very interesting.
Gerri Florence (04:02.67)
Correct.
Gerri Florence (04:09.725)
wow. Well, interestingly enough, because how much younger is Hannah than you?
Ellen Hooper (04:16.528)
Ten years.
Gerri Florence (04:17.304)
Ten years. So Heath Ledger died ten years after filming this movie. And they re released a special memorabilia DVD at that time. And that is one of the reasons they think that the film has such lasting success.
Ellen Hooper (04:33.894)
has had like a new generation. 'Cause I think it I think you need to watch it when you're young enough not to have excellent taste.
Gerri Florence (04:36.236)
Yes, like like yeah, like a resurgence.
Ellen Hooper (04:47.782)
And I think that's part of like kind of those coming of age cult movie phenomena. Yep.
Gerri Florence (04:48.482)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (04:52.14)
Yes, absolutely. And I I think watching it again, I could enjoy the bits for what they were, but also now watch it with a bit more of a critical eye. But I feel like, Ellen, we are already well off script. Well off track. Let's br let's bring it back. Opening scene. So you were time when you first saw it and like what did it mean to you at the time?
Ellen Hooper (05:01.926)
Mm-hmm.
Off track.
Ellen Hooper (05:15.078)
I saw it at the movie theatre with my very cool babysitter. So I think that made a like real big difference. Why was I watching this movie at 10? I should not have been. I just really look, like it's impossible to fact check. I may be incorrect, but I've got a vivid memory of seeing it at the Borgoon Garden City Hoits. so I think that must be true.
Gerri Florence (05:25.462)
Yes, absolutely. I'm questioning No.
Gerri Florence (05:42.319)
Okay, must speak. I've no idea where that is. I would have watched it what in my mom's basement of the house with my friends around. and at the time, I think being 14, I was Bianca's age. So for me, her I mean, she lived in this really fancy house. She was clearly loaded. it was a bit of that, like, what a cool life experience to have.
Ellen Hooper (05:43.706)
And what about you? What did you say?
Ellen Hooper (05:52.56)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (05:59.965)
Ellen Hooper (06:09.892)
It was aspirational.
Gerri Florence (06:11.63)
Correct. But at the time, at my age then, I was probably not as drawn to the cat character as I was to to the Bianca, I guess, based on my life, even though I think I am more aligned to cat as a human. but at the time I don't remember it necessarily having this big revelation, but I enjoy wa net watching it back again and then realizing my kind of road.
feminism and the and where this text played a role in that for me, which I'm sure we will get will get into. and I also love that my husband has watched this movie. He said no less than forty times. So it's not just the not just the female generation.
Ellen Hooper (06:56.048)
I love this story. Why is why have you watched it so much? This feels not not what I was expecting.
Gerri Florence (07:01.974)
Not on brand for Sam. Yes, yes. because apparently it was one of three DVDs they had in their house at uni and typical style. They couldn't be bothered going to get other things. They just put that same DVD on every night.
Ellen Hooper (07:17.626)
You know I need to know what the other two were now. Do you know? Okay. Alright. Well chemistry lab partners can find it out in the community group. That's the only place it will be revealed.
Gerri Florence (07:20.91)
Okay. No don't, but I'll I'll come back to you. So the
Yes, correct. Yes, if you want to know what the three DVDs were on my husband's shelf and you and E, besides Ten Things I Have About You, join our Chemistry Read Facebook group. Links in the show notes. so my I wanna just start at the opening of the show because I think actually from a cinematography perspective, it's really well done as well. There's lots of really fantastic shots in this. Iconic. But we have bare naked ladies playing.
Ellen Hooper (07:44.454)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (07:50.702)
It's iconic. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (07:56.834)
Which is a fantastic Canadian band, if you're not aware, and playing one week. And we think it's part of the soundtrack, but then it zooms in and it's actually the girls in the car singing along to the radio, which I thought was was quite clever. and then Kat pulls up next in her like sick. I don't know what kind of car that is, do you know? No, no, okay. I don't I think it's red. It's a red one. It's a red one. But like a, you know, a cool, a cool car.
Ellen Hooper (08:17.006)
No, I don't know cars. It's a black one. It's a red one? I don't know.
Gerri Florence (08:25.674)
And it's Joan Jet's bad reputation. So it's just really setting us up from from the get go on on the care gone cat's character.
Ellen Hooper (08:33.606)
Mm-hmm. And don't you think, I think that the song One Week by the Bear Naked Ladies is like it, you know, because this is obviously based on a Shakespeare play, Tame with the Shrew, which I devastatingly know nothing about. But but it it's very Shakespearean to be like, and then the narrator comes in with a prophecy. And I think I think the Bare Naked Ladies song is the Shakespearean prophecy. Because it the ho it's
Gerri Florence (08:48.494)
That's okay.
Gerri Florence (08:55.173)
yes.
Gerri Florence (09:02.018)
The bad reputation? Or the one weak?
Ellen Hooper (09:03.842)
No, I think one week. One week is all about like love is full of miscommunication and no one says sorry.
And that's kind of what happens. Yeah. Cause my not to to to top and tail, because my biggest problem with this film as now a grown-up in a long term relationship and as a parent, at the very end of the movie, where Patrick has like done something pretty diabolical with a huge breach of trust, he never says sorry.
Gerri Florence (09:12.878)
Pretty much sums up the show. Pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?
Gerri Florence (09:39.96)
Yeah no. But but he buys her a guitar, Ellen. I mean, gosh, can't you be happy with that?
Ellen Hooper (09:43.546)
That's fucked. No, I'm not happy with that. It's like, and it's very 90s to be like we are there's a real theme, like even, you know, the conversation between Kat and her dad about her going to Sarah Lawrence. Everything is indirect. And it's like there's no kind of just we can't just directly say our feelings and our wants and our needs, and we can't directly accept responsibility for anything. We can just buy a guitar.
Gerri Florence (10:01.037)
Mm.
Gerri Florence (10:07.947)
Right. Yes. Yes. S Yes. So Patrick feels guilty and then spends the money he made dating her on buying her a guitar instead of apologizing. It's like a very appropriate nineties style of apology. It may be Yes. Would you have taken the guitar, Ellen? Would you have accepted it?
Ellen Hooper (10:25.284)
Yeah, and we're like and we were just all like, That's so hot.
Ellen Hooper (10:34.822)
I mean a teeth ledger, so obviously at that age and stage, you know, but I I think now that would be insufficient.
Gerri Florence (10:39.415)
Yes. Yes. Okay. All right. Noted. before we move too far away from the Shakespearean reference, because I think that it'd be good for our listener to be set up to understand the references between Ten Things They Hate About You and the Shakespearean play, The Taming of the Shrew. and we put it out to the lab community as well, asking anybody who had knowledge or understanding of that to share with us and
Ellen Hooper (10:50.864)
Mm-hmm.
Gerri Florence (11:09.609)
Very lucky for you and I because despite being well educated English teacher, I've never read Taming of the Shrew. Nell, a beautiful Kem Lab partner, has come to the rescue and is gonna share with us how Ten Things A Had About You interpreted that play, and how she can find the connections between the characters. So let's hear from Nell.
Gerri Florence (11:34.967)
Great. So what do you want to talk about next?
Ellen Hooper (11:38.608)
Do you know what she says though?
Gerri Florence (11:40.239)
Yeah. The sorry, we'll stop this. The podcast editor will just plop that in there and then we'll come back. You want you well, we don't really need to we don't now she's kind of she's kind of summarizing the play and the characters together for us. so you come on and say like, that was really helpful. Something like that. And then you can make
Ellen Hooper (11:46.992)
But but I don't know what she said.
We don't need to t we don't need to know what to say. Okay, great.
Ellen Hooper (12:03.206)
Do you want me to do a segment change now? Yeah.
Gerri Florence (12:08.224)
Yes. So talk about it being really helpful and then do a segment change. Perfect.
Ellen Hooper (12:13.83)
Awesome. So interesting. Thanks, Neil. Okay, these are the questions I wanted to ask you, which I'm fascinated about. Okay, are you ready? I'll answer them too. So I are you you kind of already learned this already, but are you a cat or a Bianca?
Gerri Florence (12:16.417)
She's so clever.
Gerri Florence (12:24.834)
Mm. Yeah, yeah, yes, please.
Gerri Florence (12:32.296)
Now in life or when I was seventeen?
Ellen Hooper (12:33.956)
Yeah. Mm now.
Gerri Florence (12:36.706)
Now, a cat, thousand percent a cat. I
Ellen Hooper (12:41.52)
See, I feel like I'm an aspiring cat, but I'm actually a massive paper pleaser like Bianca.
Gerri Florence (12:48.558)
Do you think Bianca was a was a people pleaser? I don't think I saw her as a people pleaser.
Ellen Hooper (12:53.968)
She's very interested in how other people think about her and makes a lot of choices based on that.
Gerri Florence (12:59.224)
Can you give me an example?
Ellen Hooper (13:02.958)
Well she's just like very interested in popularity.
Gerri Florence (13:05.976)
Yeah, but I think that was more about like sh the things that she wanted and things she need valued. I don't think she necessarily cared as much about what other people thought of her, but I'd think her values were quite different from from Kat's in terms of pretty things and how she presents and boys and di being liked by boys, certainly. She really desired she really enjoyed having kind of Cameron and Joey.
Ellen Hooper (13:11.632)
Values. Mm.
Ellen Hooper (13:21.934)
Mm.
Gerri Florence (13:34.274)
Yeah, vying for her attention or whatever. Do you think you're do you still think you're a Bianca?
Ellen Hooper (13:36.432)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (13:40.698)
guess there's like just a real freedom and
Ellen Hooper (13:49.23)
I think it's like the standaloness that Kat's capable of. Like I you and I both very heavily extroverted. I think I think I'd be like, I need more friends and I'm willing to make I'm willing to bench some of my values to get some if I have to.
Gerri Florence (13:55.242)
Yes, yes.
Gerri Florence (14:00.367)
Really?
Gerri Florence (14:04.863)
Yes, that's very true.
Gerri Florence (14:09.518)
Okay. Absolutely. Absolutely interesting. So I think with cat I r I resonate with that like strong opinions and feeling very like, you know, set in my in my values. But I definitely wouldn't be happy or content with the the loner, quote unquote loner side of things. I was like a serial monogamist in high school, just like one serious relationship to the next one because
Ellen Hooper (14:30.64)
Mm.
Gerri Florence (14:38.018)
Who wants to be alone, Ellen? It's terrifying. so so maybe yeah, maybe I'm a bit of a mix more of a mix than I thought before you asked me that question. It's very
Ellen Hooper (14:43.238)
Mm-mm.
Ellen Hooper (14:47.14)
Hmm. Did you guys watch The Secret Life of Alex Mack in Canada?
Gerri Florence (14:53.634)
No. Well I didn't. Maybe I
Ellen Hooper (14:55.034)
So that yeah, so yeah, you're like, I don't speak for all Canadians. Cause I'd hate to offend them. So Larissa, God I never remember her last name. I think it's Ol Nick. Let me check my note. Yes. So she she was like the star of this kids' T V show called The Secret Life of Alex Matt, which was Mac which was like
Gerri Florence (14:58.954)
Yes. Sorry, I should Yes, I wouldn't I'm sorry, Canadians. Sorry, Canada.
Ellen Hooper (15:19.106)
Very cool 'cause it was like girl coded superhero, so she hilarious as is common in a superhero movie, was involved in some sort of like chemical plant explosion. And so then she was capable of like turning into a paddle moving around as a bond. No, it's it's it's genuinely a great show. yeah, but I think that just made her
Gerri Florence (15:27.341)
Right.
Gerri Florence (15:33.375)
Is this a cartoon?
Gerri Florence (15:37.622)
Live action. Okay. We're really selling it.
Ellen Hooper (15:47.086)
I guess like known and familiar to me, kind of watching this movie at this age.
Gerri Florence (15:52.374)
Which character, sorry? Bianca. Okay, so she was Alex Mack, the puddle girl. Cool. Okay, cool. Go ahead.
Ellen Hooper (15:54.17)
Danka.
Yeah. She was Alex Mack. The part of book and the potter girl. Yeah. Alright. And a are you a are you a Patrick or a Cameron?
Gerri Florence (16:09.387)
Am I team Patrick or Cameron, or do I act like Patrick or Cameron? Because that's two very different answers.
Ellen Hooper (16:11.366)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (16:16.176)
Well, I don't think you need to be on either team because they get to date different people. Yes. Mm, who would I Yeah.
Gerri Florence (16:21.013)
Yes. But I guess sorry, who who would I be more attracted to?
Gerri Florence (16:29.069)
I think I'd probably go for the Cameron, to be honest.
Ellen Hooper (16:32.528)
Way less scary. Like that's what I mean about cat that's like I would be so scared of that car, I'm like such a wimp. I'd be like, no, that's way too scary.
Gerri Florence (16:33.931)
Well that's
Gerri Florence (16:40.701)
You're too much. That's way too much. Give me some a bit of soft, a bit of gentle. but I think I would be more drawn to that how Cameron is just like so fascinated and so doubting, where Patrick is a lot more they're both more hard to get kind of thing. And I very much like to know where I stand with people very quickly and all of the time. So I would have loved that about Cameron.
Ellen Hooper (16:55.545)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (17:03.502)
Gerri Florence (17:08.651)
that he was kind of he was all in straight from the get go. And I loved that about him.
Ellen Hooper (17:14.916)
Yeah, but there is something appealing about that kind of like intellectual debate and banter that Kat and Patrick kinda get to. And I remember, yeah, at like at this kind of in these formative teenage years, like valuing that very highly. That kind of like
Gerri Florence (17:32.053)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (17:36.044)
A witty repartee, as they say. In the film.
Gerri Florence (17:37.58)
Yeah.
The the vocabulary in the film is incredible. That's another thing. Like, yes, yeah, it's very well structured. You have to be really switched on, to be kind of picking up on all of that. So I think that's fantastic. right, my question for you. Do you relate to Kat and her experience of feminism?
Ellen Hooper (17:43.184)
The dialogue is amazing. Yeah.
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (17:55.59)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (18:00.454)
so interesting. I actually think one of the reasons I in my kind of late teens, early twenties, was so comfortable being like a strident feminist and using the word feminist. Cause like in those kind of 90s noughties time, you know, like there was a real debate still, I guess, about kind of softening that. And so then the spice girls did all that damage with girl power and
Gerri Florence (18:27.807)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (18:28.964)
It was kind of like fem you know, I you know, I believe in, you know, if you were a feminist and you must hate men, like I think that's well I this like nineties fashion is coming back, I think that way of thinking is also returning. But I don't know that it was as it wasn't like kind of a socially acceptable to just really claim that word. And I think the way that this film is so kind of strident and explicit.
Gerri Florence (18:41.261)
Yes.
Ellen Hooper (18:58.146)
about feminism, about feminist ideas, about
Yeah, in the way that Kat shows up really informed like my expression of feminism, which is wild. But I think it was really influential.
Gerri Florence (19:11.617)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (19:15.084)
Hm.
Gerri Florence (19:19.423)
Influential for your how you viewed that idea of of feminism. I think for me, Kat's version of feminism very much reminds me of my my own first version of feminism. And I think as you age, of course, it's it's age appropriate feminism because you've got a lot of hormones and you know, all that kind of teenager age. I was like a horrific 14-year-old. I was very angry, went through a serious emo phase.
Ellen Hooper (19:21.699)
Yeah, for me, yeah.
Ellen Hooper (19:31.968)
Mm. It's age appropriate.
Gerri Florence (19:48.494)
and my feminism in that time definitely, I think s probably shortly after that, was quite that like outrage once you kind of realize how how bad women have it sometimes and how unfair the world is. It starts with that anger before you then can move through to maybe some more critical or more productive forms of of feminism. So I think for Kat it was nostalgic for me in that way.
Ellen Hooper (20:02.854)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (20:17.606)
I think that's maybe why I feel like I was a bit more of a Bianca because it it just didn't actually really occur to me till I started working in a law firm in my early 20s. Like how much was still left to go in terms of feminism? Like I really I was telling you this the other day, I really was like, feminism has one and equality is here, and we're like all good.
Gerri Florence (20:32.877)
Yes, yes.
Gerri Florence (20:42.337)
Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (20:43.706)
I think Ten Things I Hate About You does a relatively good job for the 90s of also doing a little bit of intersection, intersectionality. Not great. But you know, there's there is this like exp like I s like what I love about it, really direct exchange where she's, you know, cats like, you know, Mr. Morgan, why don't we have any books women written by women? And then he says, Well, you can ask them why they don't have any books written by a black man.
Gerri Florence (20:50.518)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (21:02.785)
Mm-hmm.
Gerri Florence (21:08.14)
Yes.
Ellen Hooper (21:13.274)
Which is like, you know, and for in in the 90s with our white version of feminine feminism, I think that was a really critical and useful point. And then, you know, the like Rustaferian Bob Marley fans go, I'm not gonna do the accent, but they're like, that's right, man. And he's like, What the fuck with you guys? So and I felt that was it's such a tiny snippet of the whole film. But and you know, we can talk more about how I think.
Gerri Florence (21:13.717)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (21:26.285)
Yeah, but yeah. Yeah, but
Ellen Hooper (21:41.284)
the black characters in this movie are quite token. and it's a pretty predominantly white movie, which is like, you know, shows the nineties. but that was very direct and clear and useful.
Gerri Florence (21:44.449)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (21:54.54)
And she definitely challenges the patriarchy in lots of ways, but the film also then undercuts it a lot with like really inappro what what would be considered now inappropriate ways or very anti women ways. Like at one point, is it Patrick that says, her nipples must taste like beer if you're to do that much stuff for her? And I was like, God, that's terrible.
Gerri Florence (22:24.045)
Yes. Or when the dad, the dad, I mean the dad is pretty we can't not if we're gonna talk about the feminism experience. I think we have to because one of my favorite lines where I l literally laughed out loud, but also is like it's so bad, is after Kat rams her car into Joey's Mustang or whatever, and he says, I was like, I did laugh.
Ellen Hooper (22:24.634)
Yeah, there's and also this kind of the dad. Yeah.
Should we talk about the dad? Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (22:46.18)
Yes, my insurance doesn't cover PMS.
Gerri Florence (22:53.677)
And then I felt bad for laughing. but you know, I would argue that there's some pretty anti feminist tropes in here as well.
Ellen Hooper (22:54.426)
Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (23:03.428)
It's interesting though, because it's like, you know, a pop culture kind of needs to show you juxtaposition to kind of it you know, if everyone lives in this kind of utopian equal egalitarian world, the characters don't get things to like rage and rile up against. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that should we talk about his approach to parenting now? Should we save that for a little later?
Gerri Florence (23:11.211)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (23:16.077)
There's no yeah. There's no cut through. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (23:23.565)
No, I think it's this is a good time to do that because I a lot of people when I was talking about the show said the dad was their one of their favorite characters, which I thought was interesting. I think maybe a little bit reminding us of of a n like a 90 a 90s dad, like you know, that really overprotective, you know, you're my daughter and I must keep you safe from the bad men out there in the world.
Ellen Hooper (23:27.867)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (23:35.748)
Why?
Gerri Florence (23:53.287)
potentially and and he's just so ridiculous.
Ellen Hooper (23:57.454)
He's well crafted in his context though. you know, with being like an O V G Y N, you know, delivering babies for a living. And then the other thing I really missed my memory of it is that I mean, I I remembered that there wasn't a mum in the picture. But my my interpretation of it, it's interesting how the brain does that. is that she had died, but when I listen to the dialogue.
Gerri Florence (24:16.577)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (24:24.578)
Same.
Ellen Hooper (24:26.414)
And it's very light, there is literally one sentence and it's like since mum left.
Gerri Florence (24:32.171)
Yes.
Ellen Hooper (24:33.504)
which has fully went over my head because that's a very different reason to feel angry. And it's a very different real reason to feel very overprotective as a father. Yes. Look, and and he gets to be like the comic foil, I guess, for b for for both, you know, for both of his daughters kind of coming of age narrative. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (24:36.684)
Yeah.
Gerri Florence (24:40.545)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (24:46.657)
Right. Yes. Yes. That makes and
Gerri Florence (24:54.785)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (24:58.667)
Yes. Yeah, a dad, a single dad raising two girls. You know, we've we've and he's an obstetrician and all the crazy references he makes to the women and the young girls that he experiences. And makes Fianca wear the pregnancy belly and walk around the living room.
Ellen Hooper (25:07.716)
Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (25:15.838)
Too I mean, so iconic and so memorable. Like I've re remembered that for twenty years now. That scene.
Gerri Florence (25:18.541)
There.
Yeah. and I so I guess part of us we do forgive him for his yeah, position and where he's at. and I think like you, I thought the mom died. And it's funny how as mothers ourselves, I think we can't fathom leaving our kids. So therefore we in our brain replaceable, the only way you'd ever leave your kids is dying, which is obviously not true. but I think it also linked
Ellen Hooper (25:37.382)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (25:43.278)
E absolut yeah.
Ellen Hooper (25:47.738)
Yeah.
Gerri Florence (25:53.834)
It also helps us to understand Bianca potentially better as well, lacking a mother figure and her sister and her just feeling that sense of of disconnect. and that's why she is chasing the in crowd, the popularity, the sense of belonging, 'cause she's potentially not feeling that at home.
Ellen Hooper (25:57.766)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (26:04.304)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (26:14.4)
And you know, I think one of the reasons why you can kind of like this character in the dad is because he there's a lot of personal growth for him. You know. I mean, he does the Shakespearean thing we need him to do, which he kind of like sets up the plot device and the f you know, the the silly rules, right? That we're f that we're playing a game within. and but he kind of
Gerri Florence (26:33.1)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yep.
Ellen Hooper (26:42.894)
Evolves to the point, you know, plenty of dads in the 90s would have been like, Well, I you could date if your sister could date, but now this thing is here, you know what? Changed my mind. So he kind of he he he yeah, he evolves with his kids. And then that big scene at the end, like one of the most impactful scenes as a grown-up now, is he is actually like, Yeah, you can go to the university.
Gerri Florence (26:51.329)
Yes. He doesn't.
Ellen Hooper (27:09.712)
that you want to go with my full blessing and financial support. Like that's a big that's a big piece of personal growth.
Gerri Florence (27:14.059)
Yeah.
And what was the and what was the trigger for that, do you think? What was the lever that that pushed him?
Ellen Hooper (27:25.542)
Yeah, that's so interesting. Never thought about it. Don't tend to think from Mel Carter's perspectives. No, I'm just kidding. I yeah, possibly because the worst thing he thought could happen was for his whatever 16 or 15 year old to go to the prom and she did and everyone survived. And maybe it was kind of a loosening of the jar. I mean, we do all have to go through that as parents, right? It's being like the whole we've done a good job of you become your own person and
Gerri Florence (27:28.845)
Okay. Yeah, I had to go back and look.
Gerri Florence (27:40.321)
Mm-hmm.
Gerri Florence (27:50.753)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (27:53.978)
that that means you get to live on your own terms and it's that's horrifying and terrifying.
Gerri Florence (27:55.32)
Here you go. Yeah. Go forth. Yep. So I th and I'm not sure and I so I think that parenting I mean, I don't have teenagers yet, but I've worked with teenagers a lot. And I I think that push and pull and that kind of internal feelings around trying to hold on to your kids' youth as long as you can is is relatable, but of course they make it extreme with the whole, you know, pregnancy thing.
but what about the representation for you around how teenage girls are represented in the nineties versus today? Do you think that it's the same, different?
Ellen Hooper (28:28.966)
Ellen Hooper (28:34.394)
Well, I really it's it's quite subtle again, but I really love that Kat and her friend whose name I had to look up. So Kat and her friend Mandela. Like d what do you what? I was watching on this on the plane to Sydney, kind of doing my research for this very important job that we do. And there there's this just this one scene and it's just before Kat pulls down the prom poster.
Gerri Florence (28:45.633)
Less.
Ellen Hooper (29:01.114)
But they're just walking out of class and they're laughing and they're having such a good time together. And the joined connection you see between those kind of older girl characters, you never see that with Bianca and Chastity. And so I just I think that I think that like you know, there can only be one hot girl, there can only be one junior at Lepr, there can only be one et cetera, et cetera. Yes.
Gerri Florence (29:12.375)
Mm.
Gerri Florence (29:16.788)
Absolutely not.
Gerri Florence (29:27.563)
The competitive nature.
Ellen Hooper (29:29.858)
Yes, and like and and you know, there was this real sense that Chastity's friendship with Bianca was what was about being popular and being in an in crowd, not genuine's friendship.
Gerri Florence (29:39.874)
Yeah. Yeah. And it and that is very typical of the age of I when I think about kids in grade eight, of that in that age group, there is a lot of trying to find out who your people are, who can you trust, who can't you trust. And that to me still really holds up today where someone who you think is your friend one minute is the next minute getting picked up by
Ellen Hooper (29:49.285)
Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (30:00.112)
Mm.
Gerri Florence (30:07.201)
the guy you're meant to be dating and and going to prom with them and stabbing you in the back, so to speak.
Ellen Hooper (30:11.952)
Oof, rough. But I but I just love I think a lot of nineties films wouldn't have a juxtaposition of a female friendship that was really like close and beautiful. Yeah. And I and and I totally missed that at the time actually. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (30:19.639)
Positive. Yes, I agree. I'd agree. And I think that's with age as well. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. because they don't really do her justice. What is her name? Mandela. Mandela. They don't do a lot with her. and which which is the same because she is a very interesting character, but I do love that she is Shakespeare obsessed, and that's how they kind of continue with that Shakespeare trope in there.
Ellen Hooper (30:32.248)
Mandela. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (30:49.717)
So what else do you think h doesn't hold up from nineties to now?
Ellen Hooper (30:55.366)
I think I look the nineties plot line of like I'm dating you for some nefarious reason is so common. Like Hallow is a guy in ten days, is it she's all that as well? never been kissed is such a 90s a plot device. And it's interesting like it's it so like we say that in off campus, but it's
Gerri Florence (31:05.035)
Well, that's ki yes.
Gerri Florence (31:10.879)
Yeah, that's well that's the transformation. Yes. Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (31:25.078)
it's very directly communicated. It's not a trick. Yes, the fake relationship in off campus is like they both know what's happening there. So it's I think that kind of how I think the fact that we have a whole genre of films that we're growing up with, which is like if your relationship with someone starts on an absolute lie, they're probably still the love of your life.
Gerri Florence (31:29.313)
Yes. That's the fake relationship. Yes, versus
Gerri Florence (31:39.543)
Yes, it's okay.
Gerri Florence (31:45.538)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (31:51.436)
Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (31:54.052)
It's very problematic.
Gerri Florence (31:54.571)
yeah, well it's the did you watch voicemails for Isabel?
Ellen Hooper (31:59.344)
No, I didn't.
Gerri Florence (32:00.543)
So like the same idea. They he like f date starts dating this woman without telling her that he actually like stocked her voicemails and followed her to the city she's in and like then pretends to just run into her, but it's it's all a lie. He's pre-planned it all. And I'm like, that is really problematic, but like that was released this year and still got rave reviews. Where I'm like, I don't that doesn't fly for me.
Ellen Hooper (32:20.15)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (32:26.358)
I yeah, I think the indirect communication is very odd the time. What do you what else do you reckon doesn't hold up?
Gerri Florence (32:31.82)
I think well for me the guidance counselor writing erotica during sorry during I know. And so I thought that would never fly today. That type of there's quite a lot of inappropriate exchanges between teachers and students in this film. Flashing a te Yes, yes, yeah.
Ellen Hooper (32:41.968)
Janny, like what a legend. Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (32:53.85)
flashing a teacher and that just being like just nothing that anyone ever says or thinks about again. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (33:01.162)
you that you would get s you would surely be reporting that to protect yourself and then that student would be suspended. Like, you know, absolutely. and the way the English teacher like yells at the kids and speaks to them, like, again, parents would be up in arms and calling the Department of Education if that was happening in classrooms today. So I felt like that was really dated. But also like my
Ellen Hooper (33:06.32)
That is absolutely a child safety risk for sure.
Ellen Hooper (33:26.362)
Mm-hmm.
Gerri Florence (33:30.036)
Own a high school English teacher, it really brought me back to the him, Mr. McGraw, who definitely sure was an alcoholic, and used to assign as parrots in class. And he would be we'd be doing his Shakespeare play and he'd be like, you know, James, you can be Hamlet, Jerry, Ophelia, she's a real slut. You can be her. And I'd be like, Thanks, Mr. McGraw, 100%.
Ellen Hooper (33:49.282)
Woo You had this real history of getting slutchained by random people as a child and you just really don't give off that vibe. So I'm very not that there's a vibe, but I'm just so interested in this history you have. Small Canadian towns.
Gerri Florence (34:00.695)
But like and and at the time I you know, he's absolutely he's maybe trying to make a joke or he thinks it's an appropriate joke, but I and I and I don't remember being like traumatized by it, but I remember it very clearly and I think that's so interesting because I work in education and just would not would not fly today.
Ellen Hooper (34:12.486)
Course Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (34:25.796)
What about the I just think the bogey Laurenstein House party is like what every parent in the 90s was like horrified when accidentally happened to them. But that scene of, you know, throwing those pamphlets up into the air, the soundtrack in this film is amazing, the spiral stair quite case, like just some really good piece of very memorable cinema.
Gerri Florence (34:38.656)
Yes, yes.
Gerri Florence (34:45.539)
Aw yeah.
Stellar. Yes. Yeah. Steph Hansen would froth that. Yeah, very. And yes, the at the very end when they had the stage on top of the roof and the band that Cat Love playing, I was like, that looks so unsafe and so amazing. It was such a good shot at the end as well. It's very, very well made. so
Ellen Hooper (34:56.71)
Yeah, we should ask her.
Ellen Hooper (35:05.051)
Yes.
Ellen Hooper (35:13.862)
All right. Tell me about feminist text. Like, there's so much feminist text in this. Like, and like, what's your relationship with feminist text? Like, have you read The Bel Jar? Have you read The Feminist Mystique? Are you a bad feminist? Also a Roxanne Gay book? Like, what are we thinking?
Gerri Florence (35:33.741)
I I I know it's like if sometimes you're like, I'm a feminist, but like did I really do the right work amount of work and research? Yes. Maybe a bit before that. I haven't read The Jar or The Feminist Mystique. but my gateway to feminist text was in my first year uni with my literature teen teacher, and it was the Handmaid's Tale before it was made into a TV series.
Ellen Hooper (35:39.472)
You're like, but on TikTok I can get the TikTok version.
Ellen Hooper (35:59.947)
Yeah, the best TV show on television, yeah.
Gerri Florence (36:05.084)
And I just remember s literally it being my quite mind blowing to me the things that I just never realized, for women. And I'm gonna tell a story here and you can tell me afterwards if we should cut it from the episode because it's not appropriate.
Ellen Hooper (36:14.662)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (36:20.548)
It's it's what Hey Mitch Nandy call keep it or delete it. Okay, let's go.
Gerri Florence (36:24.116)
Yes, okay. Keep it or delete it. my our teacher taught us or showed us that feminine products were taxed. So if you have a groceries and sales tax, you buy fruit, vegetables, essentials, there's no tax on those. But non essential items are text. Like tampons and pads are text. Condoms, not text. And I remember being really outraged at this and so good. Doctor McFarlane.
Ellen Hooper (36:40.73)
Like tampons.
Ellen Hooper (36:51.184)
What a good take job.
Gerri Florence (36:53.868)
Told me that her dream is to organize a protest at Parliament House and get as many women there on the same day of the month that are if they're well synced in their cycle, wearing no feminine products, and then asking them, yeah, and ask them if they believe that it's essential or not after the protest. And I was like, that is that's cat love. Like that's badass. I would never do that, but that is that's commitment to the cause.
Ellen Hooper (37:05.65)
she's like free blade.
Ellen Hooper (37:17.115)
Yeah.
I love that. And something I love about the Hairmaid's Tale, which I studied in year eleven, I think, literature, is that everything that happens in the Hairmaid's Tale has happened to women somewhere in the world. So it's this just it's a dystopian future. And I I do I think the TV show has continued with that thematically. So it's a dystopian kind of future world, but it's like, but all the stuff's all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are already here.
Gerri Florence (37:32.939)
Right.
Gerri Florence (37:45.461)
Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (37:48.068)
And that's what's so amazing about Margaret Atwood. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (37:48.152)
Yeah, it's not that it's not that far fetched. One of the top most amazing Canadian authors. There's lots of Canadian themes going on in today's episode.
Ellen Hooper (37:55.142)
So the feminist mistake written by Betty Friedman, who I think is American apologies. You don't, you're not gonna claim her.
Gerri Florence (38:04.126)
No, no, I'll let that one th n maybe North American?
Ellen Hooper (38:08.234)
One second please. Yes, I think. Exciting in this episode. Costa, it's getting prettier. That's so important. I hope you have fun and can you please close the door? Okay, tell me all about it, okay? Do you want to say how to Jerry? Hey. Alright, see you later, alligator. Don't forget the toilet highlight. Okay, close the door though. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (38:29.44)
my god yes that is a classic in my house too. Zoe is very cute. my god, sorry Alexander, our beautiful podcast podcast editor. You can cut that bit out.
Ellen Hooper (38:36.646)
Apologies, yeah. There's there's this comedian called Eliza Schlesinger, and she was she was for recording her podcast, and her kid came in, and she was like, There's nothing that makes me feel less sexy and like a celebrity when my child interrupts a podcast recording. She's like, I just has been. Okay. Sorry, we're talking about the feminist mistake. Yes. so I have read The Feminist Mystique.
Gerri Florence (38:57.844)
Ellen Hooper (39:06.018)
And I find reading nonfiction really difficult. Yeah, so I've got the badge. this one, this one with certificates on the wall. It's actually completing the feminist mistake. It is a really good book. I wouldn't recommend reading it all. I'll just tell you the most important part. it took me two years to finish. And the thing I took from it most is it's it's a lot of research about women in the 60s, because in, you know, the 40s, men went to war and women started doing heaps of stuff.
Gerri Florence (39:06.944)
real feminist.
Gerri Florence (39:12.817)
Yeah.
Gerri Florence (39:23.244)
Wow.
Ellen Hooper (39:35.524)
And so then in the fifties we really pressured them to be back home. And so by the kind of late fifties, early sixties, we were like going and getting degrees in order to get married. So now we have all this knowledge and then we just have to like vacuum the house all day and like that's where you get all the like make your house smell like cookies and it's ridiculous stuff. But the most interesting I think I think I got from the Feminist Mystique was if you have eight hours a day to vacuum and clean your house, you will take eight hours a day. Like you just don't need
Gerri Florence (39:52.298)
Hm.
Gerri Florence (40:05.825)
Yes.
Ellen Hooper (40:06.702)
Yeah, we just kind of fill time with kind of whatever we're told is like the socially acceptable thing to do. So it was like a real rebellion. The feminist mistake is like the start of a real rebellion about thinking about how we use our time.
Gerri Florence (40:15.926)
To feel something. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (40:23.346)
Interesting. What a r interesting link that I've never I didn't think that's what the feminist league was about. So you're definitely should do some TikToks on that so you can educate me further.
Ellen Hooper (40:24.75)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (40:30.67)
Ha ha
Ellen Hooper (40:34.106)
No, I'm sure I'm sure the TikTokers will come and be like, You don't remember this book you read ten years ago and that's not yet correct.
Gerri Florence (40:41.632)
Would you show this to your movie to your own children? Do you think that your your kids should watch it?
Ellen Hooper (40:46.394)
Yeah. At an age appropriate age, I really like reading books and watching things with them. So for example, at this age it's like in a blatant, massive racist, that you can kind of be like, huh, like that's a bit weird, don't you think? Like, what do you think about that? So I'm not there's no the whole point of literature and pop culture is kind of often to highlight injustices and imperfections and like
Gerri Florence (40:57.132)
Yeah.
Gerri Florence (41:12.896)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (41:14.444)
to create critical thinking. Yeah. What about you?
Gerri Florence (41:16.724)
Yeah. Well, it it's actually there's not a lot of graphic scenes in this in terms of like graphic sex scenes. Yeah. So I'm like don't think it's I think watching it at twelve, thirteen, fourteen is is quite age appropriate, but I wouldn't let them watch it alone. I would definitely want to be there to have those conversations and make sure that they're picking up on the things I want them to pick up on and challenging them the things that I want them to challenge because I
Ellen Hooper (41:22.079)
Mm. I I think it's PG. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (41:45.898)
you know, as we said, I don't think the text is without its issues, but it's such a great film. Like we d we still we can love it and accept it for all the good bits and the bad bits.
Ellen Hooper (41:58.96)
Well, you know, we haven't talked about kind of how consent's portrayed through the film either. And it does a pretty good job of consent. I mean, that that scene where she is so drunk and also has vomited, maybe I don't want to kiss you after that. and it's hard, it's like we never re because we don't get a lot of Patrick's inner world, it's hard to know whether there's he feels guilt for the kind of
Think we do see that he feels guilt for the setup he's been put in because he says to Joey, like, I'm not doing this anymore. Or if it or if there is this can he does say, like, you've had too much to drink. Like, there's this ahead of its time.
Gerri Florence (42:34.592)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (42:39.54)
Yeah.
Gerri Florence (42:44.872)
He doesn't take advantage of her when she when she is drunk.
Ellen Hooper (42:45.026)
implicit yeah concern and yes and there's a feeling about you know her story about her relationship with Joey and having sex with him and then kind of being no longer useful or interesting to him in a relationship that didn't have sex in it, you know, for what for what? Like for the foreseeable future, which is like four weeks in teenage life. I had a boyfriend break up with me once 'cause I went on exchange to France for two weeks.
Gerri Florence (43:01.046)
Yeah.
Gerri Florence (43:07.854)
Mm. Yes.
Gerri Florence (43:16.076)
Well you did W you weren't got it?
Ellen Hooper (43:17.402)
Yeah, he was a real piece of shit. So that's good, but
I mean like yeah, at the time I was. Yeah. But yeah, some more some unusually n like not very nighties view of consent in there.
Gerri Florence (43:23.594)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. horrendous. The we 'cause
Gerri Florence (43:35.287)
Patrick is the bad boy in disguise, right? We're supposed to think he is a bad boy. and then we actually find out, no, he really listens, he really notices. Like that's why he buys her the guitar because he pays attention to what she likes and what she's interested in. And he has all this folklore around him about where he spent last year. And we find out, of course, he spent it caring for his unwell grandfather living on the couch. And
So he's this real kind of beautiful soul, which is why we forgive him for not apologizing at the end of the film, because deep down he may think maybe he's really a good guy, question mark. and he doesn't he doesn't care so much about people. I guess he maybe he wants people to continue to think that he's he's a bad boy. He doesn't want them to know the truth where he lets that kind of guard down with cat.
Ellen Hooper (44:18.854)
Big question mark.
Gerri Florence (44:34.474)
And the same as her. She feels like she needs to have this real firm well, they what does Patrick say? Something awful like, You want me to tame the beast? That's what he refers to her as like awful. but then she has you know, she softens and allows him to see where her hard exterior has come from as well.
Ellen Hooper (44:44.444)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (44:55.482)
Do you think it's realistic that he goes from being someone who like drills a hole through a stranger's textbook to actually being that person that he is with Kat? Like, because sure, you know, there's a version of a story where he's like known and like rumor mills are a big part, I think, of 90s kind of team team dramas. But we actually get to see him doing some pretty aggressive stuff.
Gerri Florence (45:04.936)
Mm-hmm.
Gerri Florence (45:16.908)
Mm.
Ellen Hooper (45:25.69)
Yeah, so it's like do you think that's realistic that that person can exist?
Gerri Florence (45:31.476)
No, and the and you are you are the me right now and the me and me 'cause I'm always like, but that would never happen. And she's like, It's movies, it needs that kind of.
Ellen Hooper (45:40.502)
No, no, but I but I and I'm you can see I'm happy for like weird plot stuff and like bets and you know, dads and but I want my character development to feel like a human being that is that exists.
Gerri Florence (45:52.481)
But I actually think the problem is that we are so used to now having the T a lot of what we watch are now these limited series and TV shows. Yeah, you got so much time for that character development to happen where we had 90 minutes and 10 things I hate about you to go from bad boy to like sweet kid.
Ellen Hooper (46:00.44)
East T V. Yeah. That's fair. Mm.
Ellen Hooper (46:13.092)
Yeah. Do you think this is a different version of that, he's mean to you 'cause he likes you? Like which is a very damaging narrative.
Gerri Florence (46:22.538)
No, I think he wasn't ever planning to like her. So I think he was like mean from the start 'cause he's he didn't didn't care about her, he just wanted the cash.
Ellen Hooper (46:33.978)
Yeah, okay. Hmm. Well, I just I I hadn't I hadn't thought about it before, but you know that kind of like the Anne of Green Gables pigtail you know, Gilbert with whatever is that his name puts her like hair in the ink jar and that w like What? You're an English teacher, what's happening? I'm like, I read the bell jar, I read the Bernard Steak, I've read Anne of Green Gables, come on.
Gerri Florence (46:35.446)
What do you think? You don't re you don't agree, which is okay.
Gerri Florence (46:45.996)
No, I have no idea what you're talking about.
And Anna Green
Gerri Florence (46:57.578)
And Anna Green Gables is set in my part of Canada. So here we go again. Yep. Sorry.
Ellen Hooper (47:00.492)
Like what the Yeah, I thought we were I thought I was on safe ground here. But I think there is I do think something that's kind of a feature of the last ten years has been rewriting that narrative of like yeah, like teasing and meanness and the and then like what what then turns into physical violence like isn't love. Obsession, love bombing. anyway, so I just hadn't thought about it before. This is a fresh thought for you guys that I'm just exploring now.
Gerri Florence (47:15.444)
Gerri Florence (47:20.456)
Yeah, yes, yes.
Gerri Florence (47:26.7)
That's good. Well, we might have we might have to come back to it. Cause I mean, Cameron and Ecker are the ones that set this up. And Ecker is my most favorite underrated character, I think, in in the film. He's just such a dork. But really, we again we forgive him, even though he's this is his plan. Like, yes, Joey paid and Patrick did the work, but they were the masterminds behind all that. And they're not they're meant to be the good guys.
Ellen Hooper (47:37.253)
Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (47:42.682)
Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (47:50.927)
Yeah.
And he and that character is, yeah, that character's like kind of the Shakespearean narrator in a lot of ways. Yeah, it's like an area that is a underrated character who's very important and very likable and funny and flawed and gr and like grows. I I do love I think one of the reasons I love this so much is because of all the character grow character growth, which brings me, I think, to maybe our last question before we do our cold read, which is
Gerri Florence (48:01.248)
Mm. Get me suck.
Gerri Florence (48:06.923)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (48:10.291)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (48:16.437)
Yeah.
Ellen Hooper (48:23.376)
Grand romantic gestures for you. Beautiful beautiful or cringe. I don't actually. Yeah. Tell me.
Gerri Florence (48:25.676)
Mm-hmm. you know the answer. You know, you know my answer. You don't. I am obsessed with grand romantic gestures. Like, hear me out first. I love it for other people. I would hate no, duh.
Ellen Hooper (48:37.092)
You love it.
Okay.
Okay. I can't imagine you wanting or even like if I gave you a compliment right now, I think that would be bad for you.
Gerri Florence (48:52.012)
It it'd be hard for me to take that. But I love my feed is full I wanna experience other people's. It gives me all the feels and I love it. I loved Hannah singing to Garrett in off campus. My algorithm is full of like did you my feed is full of like surprise proposals, like big public proposals and things like that.
Ellen Hooper (48:57.006)
You want to watch it. Okay.
Ellen Hooper (49:06.52)
Mm-hmm. I did that. Yep.
Ellen Hooper (49:18.966)
Mm.
Gerri Florence (49:21.436)
And when Heath Ledger, or sorry, Patrick, does that big grand gesture for Kat, I just like ear to ear smile the whole time. I just think it's like so fun and gorgeous and lovely that someone has that kind of confidence and b bravado to pull that off. But I think if I was receiving that, I would find it very uncomfortable. And when this was like 2011, Sam and I went away to Thailand and he
Ellen Hooper (49:24.038)
Mm-hmm.
Gerri Florence (49:50.867)
organized like a tent on the beach, a private shaft, candlelit path down to this thing. We were there with t a another couple friends of ours. And I was so petrified the whole date. Like and I was really t hush drung. It was too much. And I said after 10 minutes, I was like
Ellen Hooper (50:06.576)
That's too much.
So if he had if he had then started to sing and dance in front of you.
Gerri Florence (50:14.04)
I actually in pure panic was like, You're not gonna propose, are you? He's like, No.
He's like, no. I'm like, okay, okay. I can I but again, I love some I love seeing other people's public proposals. But I appreciate now that potentially for those people getting engaged, it was not their idea of a good time. But I appreciate.
Ellen Hooper (50:23.866)
That's so a public proposal is also my greatest nightmare. Yeah. But I don't yeah.
Ellen Hooper (50:34.726)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Hooper (50:41.988)
See, 'cause I don't believe in proposals. I think you should decide together. Yeah. And and someone sure, like if you want to do a ritual around it, like whatever. But I think th for me, the people who people who are like, I had no idea he was going to propose, I like, Well, that relationship's fucked. That's no good. See, do we decided in the kitchen, like normal people. No, I'm just kidding. I know I know that we that's not a normal
Gerri Florence (50:46.124)
What about deciding together and then it being a proposed?
Gerri Florence (50:59.21)
Yeah.
Now I need to know your proposal story.
Okay.
Ellen Hooper (51:11.492)
normal thing. And then yeah, we did the like show. Like we did we like whatever. He picked a ring with my sister, which is delightful. You guys can look if you're watching on wherever you might be watching. yes. And so we like we did the whole proposal performance. but I didn't feel I felt like it was a very informed consent. Yeah. See, 'cause for me, I think the most like for me, the s most
Gerri Florence (51:33.452)
I love that for you. Very on brand.
Ellen Hooper (51:40.806)
Stunning hottest scene is the paintball.
Gerri Florence (51:45.386)
my gosh. Awww.
Ellen Hooper (51:46.402)
I love like that would be still I would still like love that day. And I just really love that they weren't they like I did think I spent quite a lot of my early 20s trying to find a place where you could do paint ball that wasn't with guns. Yeah, and I've never found one in Australia because that would have really ruined the vibe. but I yeah, I think that like physical closeness with like
Gerri Florence (51:52.917)
Yes.
Gerri Florence (52:03.04)
Guns, yeah.
Gerri Florence (52:10.092)
Yeah, that would hurt.
Gerri Florence (52:14.988)
Fun play. Yeah, that was a gorgeous scene. And and
Ellen Hooper (52:15.148)
a range of fun, yeah, was like stunning. Yeah. I wouldn't want to have to pedal a stupid pedal boat together, but I could do it.
Gerri Florence (52:23.698)
No, that was weird. Let's escape detention and go on paddle it it was so fake looking. It was a very weird scene. but so you did you so you didn't love the grand gesture yourself scene in Ten Things I Had About You when he sings.
Ellen Hooper (52:28.102)
That's definitely a budget coming there somewhere.
Ellen Hooper (52:38.562)
It's a beauti it's a it's an iconic movie scene when I kind of put on my Instagram stories, what do you love most about this movie, apart from my friend who's ten years older than the Nast, is like when it was over. then just the bleacher, like the bleacher scene, the song, like it it's clearly a big part of I wonder it must have had a huge impact on Heath Ledger's career, I would imagine. yeah. All right.
Gerri Florence (52:49.046)
Yeah.
Gerri Florence (52:55.328)
Yeah.
The cult.
Gerri Florence (53:02.108)
Yes. Beautiful Heath. Okay. So on
Ellen Hooper (53:06.106)
This is our cold read. Would you like to tell our leaders listeners about our cold read?
Gerri Florence (53:10.686)
Yes, so our cold read is when the two people hosting the episode come with a secret question. So some of the stuff that we've talked about today, we we don't script it, but there's a discussion guide. but I have crafted a c question for Ellen that she knows nothing about, and I'm gonna ask her. So the film is based on the thick the Shakespearean play Taming of the Shrew. So
Ellen Hooper (53:28.454)
Hit me.
Gerri Florence (53:39.624)
Someone has to be tamed. Who actually is tamed? Is it cat or Patrick?
Ellen Hooper (53:46.102)
well, I mean it's Kat's dad. That's so clever, Jerry. This is why the English teacher is in the house. And I think like every relationship, it's both, right? Like that's kind of where you get to with relationships is you're like, ugh, I really thought the problem was here, but it turns out it's also me. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm not a massive fan of compromise because I reckon that.
Gerri Florence (54:04.778)
Yeah. Yeah that's also the compromise yes
Ellen Hooper (54:14.522)
gets both of you into something you hate, but like the growing and evolving together.
Gerri Florence (54:21.608)
Yeah, interesting. So they're both tamed by by the end.
Ellen Hooper (54:23.502)
Yeah. Both tamed. Yeah. And the full planner in me is like, yeah, but is he moving across the country with her? Like what's happening next?
Gerri Florence (54:33.578)
Yeah, when she goes to the East Coast. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe maybe we'll see that in a sequel.
Ellen Hooper (54:35.942)
That's a lot of effort for a little fling, like anyway.
Mm. So my question for you was like, what do you think it is that makes a film like cult sure, but that kind of like informative coming of age that really sticks with someone throughout their lifetime?
Gerri Florence (55:00.532)
So I think age and stage is is important and I think for most cult classics like Dirty Dancing, which I would consider to be my all time favorite movie, that it's this
idea that all of a sudden the world is opening up to me and I am exposed and able to participate in things that until now have been out of out of reach. And when like Bianca wanted to go to these parties, Kat having already done that, you know, she's already been to parties. She had that really terrible experience with Joey and you know, she's kind of beyond that. But she also understands the importance
Ellen Hooper (55:21.862)
Mm.
Gerri Florence (55:45.353)
for growth and for that experience for her sister. So I think it's they do such a good job of tapping into that for all of us, that coming to age time for us when we were suddenly allowed to do things we weren't allowed to do before and experiencing things we haven't experienced before. And that allows us to enjoy it at the time. And then here we are, it just came out in nineteen ninety eight, I think.
twenty five years later, looking back on it and and that sense of nostalgia is there, but we're also then able to enjoy it in a in a whole different way.
Ellen Hooper (56:26.79)
there's also something about quality, like this script is hugely quality. And I think that's for me what makes it kind of stick out more than you know, like my friends were really big fans of like center stage and even kind of like your bring it ons and like I've just got no desire to sit down and watch them again.
Gerri Florence (56:34.604)
Mm-hmm.
Gerri Florence (56:42.62)
Mm.
Gerri Florence (56:48.756)
No. Did you watch Empire Records?
Ellen Hooper (56:51.91)
like it's it's got a real vague I'm not great at like zany humour. Yeah. Yeah.
Gerri Florence (56:55.34)
I feel like it's in that realm. Yeah. But center stage, very tr very tropey, you know, very kind of that way. Where I think Ten Things I Hate About You, and some of the other films that we'd put in that same category, not how to lose a guy in 10 days and those types of naughty rom-coms. But what's the other film where you have it's like based in the 70s and they hit each other with cricket bats.
Ellen Hooper (57:01.914)
Yeah.
Mm.
Gerri Florence (57:25.896)
Or baseball, that's not we might have to cut this out because I'm not gonna be able to remember it. but you should definitely go watch Empire Records because I think it kind of aligns in the same way. It's it still has some of that familiar coming of age stuff, but also really interesting subtext and challenges norms and allows for really good character growth as well.
Ellen Hooper (57:48.806)
Alright, so what are we watching next?
Gerri Florence (57:51.606)
Well, we did say last episode that this was meant to be our Ted Lasso episode, but our beautiful Mie is away. So we have done Ten Things Hate About You. So next we are actually going to record our Ted Lasso episode looking at season five of the show. Have you watched it?
Ellen Hooper (58:09.454)
I've been saving for all of them to come up. I'd like to come out. I've been saving for all of them to come out. but yes, I will definitely be getting on, I don't like waiting week to week. And because we're stingy and we want to manage our subscriptions. But yes, I'm a big fan.
Gerri Florence (58:16.734)
Why?
Gerri Florence (58:23.916)
But it is you're gonna absolutely love it. So we that that episode will come out in two weeks time. So it's worth getting there's like at least eight episodes out now. So it's well worth getting your subscription for Ted Lasso, Apple TV. By the time you catch up on those eight, you'll still be within your first month of of subscription. I had to get a you should. Thank you.
Ellen Hooper (58:48.006)
Perfect. And I watched off campus for you, so you know I'll do it.
Gerri Florence (58:53.484)
I feel very feel very loved. I watched this movie again for you and had to get a Disney subscrip subscription to do so. so that's where we're at. So if you have thoughts about Ten Things I Hate About You or any of the shows we've watched, join us in the Facebook community. We love a little bit of banter in there. Ellen, thank you for taking the time today.
Ellen Hooper (58:59.684)
Ha ha ha
Ellen Hooper (59:17.178)
You're welcome. Hey Jerry. In the Facebook community, do you think we could see a photo of you in your emo stage?
Gerri Florence (59:28.0)
Think about it. I will think about it. I mean, yes, it was 1997, so there's not a ton of photographic evidence unless you were taking pictures and getting it developed, yes. But I did listen to a lot of Everclear. I don't know if you'd put them in a emo category. There was a lot of black lace up flare pants and red and like dark hair and you know.
Ellen Hooper (59:28.836)
She'll think about it. You guys will have to be in there to find out.
Ellen Hooper (59:37.542)
Mm-hmm.
Developed, yeah.
Ellen Hooper (59:55.814)
Amazing.
Gerri Florence (59:56.224)
the my my angry phase when I was fourteen. I will I will delve into the archives and try and find something for you. Maybe even some crimped hair, I think, back then.
Ellen Hooper (59:59.27)
I love that fee.
Ellen Hooper (01:00:06.562)
Okay, thanks for listening. Thanks for having me.
Gerri Florence (01:00:08.31)
Thanks. All right. Bye.
Ellen Hooper (01:00:11.13)
Bye.
Gerri Florence (01:00:12.596)
Don't know how to stop this.
Ellen Hooper (01:00:14.038)
Ha ha ha.
